How many of you actually roll your bar?

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

instead of slide, for vibrato. Is one way really better than the other?

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

Scott Appleton · From: Ashland, Oregon

Yes lots of us roll our bars. I have been rolling for 30 years. I prefer the controll of the waver I get that way.

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Mullen S12
Acoustic 165 100W tube
71 Tele, Regal 45, Gretch
Lap, Columbia Lap, Magnatone S8, Line 6 flextone 3, JBL d130,

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

I find greater control of width with sliding instead of rolling. IE, on some tunes where I use a very wide vibrato, I find it difficult to control it using rolling. I have rolled on occassion in the past. But now almost exclusively slide it, regardless of the width or speed.

Also, I developed early in the game what I call a bad habit. That is using vibrato while picking. I have been working on this for several years now to NOT vibrato until slightly after the note is picked and then let the vibrato width build as the note sustains. This tends to give a little longer sustain I think. If I am picking relatively fast notes, I try not to use vibrato at all, reserving it strictly for sustained notes.

Observing masters like JB and BE is a good way to study what I call perfect vibrato.

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 12 June 2004 at 04:57 PM.]

Moon in Alaska · From: Kasilof, Alaska * R.I.P.

I admire watching a good steel player roll
the bar !!! I am from the old school, and I
slide the bar. I have the same problem as Carl when I roll the bar,
control on wide vibrato, also changeing the speed of it quickly.
I have learned to roll the bar some, but mostly
slide it.
PS...Hi, Carl, long time no see !!!
Moon

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Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I roll it for country, slide it for blues. Both techniques have their uses. Why limit yourself?

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I roll the slow ones, and also do a very fast sliding vibrato on uptempo stuff...mostly rock tunes. Each has its own sound and character.

Jackie Anderson · From: Scarborough, ME

I rock and I roll and I slide, but I really just wanted to be the one to say welcome back to Moon! It seems like it has been a while since you popped up.

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Same as b0b, Donny, and Jack.

Both techniques have their unique sound.

When I'm at my best, my mind hears what sound I want before I play it. My hands do what's necessary to deliver that sound.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Hey Moon,

So good to see you again dear friend. YOU have been missed

carl

Reggie Duncan · From: Mississippi

I slide.

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

Rockin' and Slidin' are what comes easiest to me
Now Rollin'is what i've been workin' on as i find it most subtle

Glad to see you back Moon !

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Funny, I thought rolling WAS old school....

I do both similar to Bobby Lee's usage and attitude.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

I usually chase a rolling bar..right after I drop it and it's rolling away !

does this count ?

t

Nick Reed · From: Russellville, KY USA

I agree with b0b on this one. Rolling gives a much better vibrato for slow Country songs. The fast R to L shake/slide technique seems to work better for the upbeat rock stuff.
With me, I really have to mentally concentrate on rolling the bar in order to do it right. Bruce Bouton addresses this subject in his instructional video and I learned alot from watching it.
It seems so simple watching someone else but it's a hard technique to master.

NR

[This message was edited by Nick Reed on 13 June 2004 at 10:39 AM.]

Reggie Duncan · From: Mississippi

Rolling the bar sounds "flat, sharp, flat, sharp....etc". At least the way I did it.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Yes, it does. Isn't that the point?

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Sliding the bar for vibrato sounds 'flat sharp flat sharp' too. In fact, VIBRATO sounds 'flat sharp flat sharp' -- that's kinda what vibrato IS. The microtonal variations can hide whether you're a bit sharp or a bit flat and can smooth out a performance. Some of the greatest instrumentalists and vocalists that ever lived are among the best practitioers of the art of vibrato. Django Reinhardt, Jerry Byrd, most of the great horn players. When done right, it's not cheatin', IT'S STYLE.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
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Nate LaPointe · From: Los Angeles, California, USA

Not only does vibrato "hide" if you're out of tune, but it also gives a note some life. Listen to Stevie Wonder for example, who does not need any help with pitch, but he'll add vibrato to a long note just at the right time and it brings a new life to it. Makes it "sing."
I have a habit of sliding but I prefer the sound of rolling.

kbdrost · From: Prospect Heights, IL

Try making little circles (actually, ovals) with the bar. I first saw Ken Champion doing this when he gave me a lesson. He now disavows any responsibility for this technique and has tried to discourage me from its use. I have ignored this advice and continue to embrace the technique as an alternative to sliding or rolling (which I also do). I think it makes a deep, pulsating kind of vibrato that is very effective for long pauses on slow tunes, and is not noticably affected by the speed at which the technique is employed. One formum member who tried this said that he gets different sounds depending on whether he makes the ovals clockwise or counter-clockwise. Try it, you might like it. It's not conventional, but it gets the job done.

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Ken Drost
steelcrazy after all these years

Reggie Duncan · From: Mississippi

"Flat, sharp...." is the point, of course. But, not to the extent I have heard some do it. The roll seems to be slower than the slide, making the notes sound more out of tune.
I tend to not use a lot of slide, accept towards the end of the sustaining of a note, right before I change positions.
Maybe if I practiced it more I would get better at rolling. ROLL ON!

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

Carl, I had the same bad habit as you did, tryin to use vibrato when pickin. but I've just about kicked that habit, with a lot of practice. vibrato is what makes the steel sound so purty to me. I watched several steel players Friday night at Ronnie's Steel Guitar shop in Hot Springs, which I enjoyed a LOT! most of them slid the bar instead of rollin it. I've always heard rollin the bar made a much better soundin vibrato, and since I've started back playin, I've tried to roll the bar, but after hearin those great steel players Friday night, I think either way sounds great, if done right.

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

Joe Miraglia · From: Jamestown N.Y.

Slide,Learned 50 years ago.That's the away Mr. Alkire Said to do it.Back then the bars had a much smaller din. Joe

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Three things that I do not like to hear in a vibrato are:

1. Nervous quiver

2. Wobble.

3. unequal distance on either side of the fret.

Too slow while rolling the bar if not very carefully done, will sometimes lead to wobble. On the other hand nervous quivers usually are what can happen when one is learning. What is worse; if the habit gets set, it can last throughout a career.
Unequal distance is another bad habit that can develop and should be corrected when one is learning (I believe).

As it was taught to me nearly 60 yrs ago:

1. Eguadistant on either side of the fret.

2. The width is governed by the music.

3. The speed is governed by the tempo of the music.

No mention was ever made respects to rolling or sliding. So I guess that is optional.

carl

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I use both, but probably slide more than roll. It depends on the effect I want in the moment. I may play the same lick in a song using the roll one time and then use the slide the next. I usually do not apply vibrato until I have reached the next position I am going to. I believe I read somewhere (maybe Guitar Player Mag..) that Lloyd Green also does this. I think this approach is more pure. Singers do this all the time. They get to pitch and then and vibrato the the note. The biggest offender of the use of vibrato )in my opinion) is Dolly Parton. Her vibrato drives me up the wall.

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Carter D10 9p/10k, NV400

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