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Topic: Why I Don't Use Picks, Reason #7 |
Barry Hyman
From:
upstate New York, USA
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Posted 10 Apr 2015 5:17 pm |
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I used a thumbpick and fingerpicks for years when I first started playing pedal steel back in '72 because I read that that's how you're supposed to do it. I got so comfortable with them I started using them on guitar as well (which I've been playing since '64) and even re-learned all my flatpick tricks with the thumbpick.
But I like to mute (meaning "block" but I think mute is a more transparent word) with the fingertips of my right hand. (As well as with the heel of my right hand, the base and side of my right thumb,the side of my right pinky, my left hand, and everything else possible except the volume pedal, yes.) And when you wear picks and try to mute with them, they make noise. Fingertips are soft, and when they touch the string the sound stops immediately. Picks, whether metal or plastic, are hard, and when they touch strings they make noise before they can possibly mute. Plus they are larger than fingertips and can make noise on strings adjacent to the ones you are trying to mute. Yes, you could learn to walk down stairs wearing high heels, but isn't it easier barefoot? But I'm a radical hippie weirdo leftist self-taught iconoclast, so have at it...
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I give music lessons on several different instruments in Cambridge, NY (between Bennington, VT and Albany, NY). But my true love is pedal steel. I've been obsessed with steel since 1972; don't know anything I'd rather talk about... www.barryhyman.com |
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Hal Braun
From:
Eustis, Florida, USA
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Posted 10 Apr 2015 5:39 pm
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I am with you, except I have never gotten comfortable with picks.. Guitar or steel.. Not only muting but I use my fingers like reading Braille. With picks I don't know "where I am".
I also happen to like the tone better. , and like going barefoot, once you get calluses you can go anywhere  |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 10 Apr 2015 6:12 pm
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I use picks, and mute with my fingertips...
I play with my fingertips too when needed, without taking off those picks |
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Les Cargill
From:
Oklahoma City, Ok, USA
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Posted 10 Apr 2015 6:43 pm
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Georg, I think you have it all figured out
I'm with you Barry. Blocking's easier without the metal. I get a lot cleaner play. Obviously others get cleaner than I do with fingers just with picks, so no excuses.
I've gotten to where I can use picks. I still like the tone better without 'em. I can get more "bloom" outta the notes. Apparently, I play pretty hard. You don't get much attack, but the harmonics in the note rise a bit.
Perversely, I like the thumbpick least of all. Normal humans seem to be the other way 'round. I already have calluses from playing bass and fingerpicking.
I figure the picks are just a long-term project. It'll be a while before they sound good. Some days with the picks, it sounds really good. Gettin' there. What's helped is using them on six-string. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 11 Apr 2015 5:39 am
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I feel the same, Barry; muting seems more natural, and I like the direct feel of the strings on my fingers.
I also must be "a radical hippie weirdo leftist self-taught iconoclast." I like it.
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Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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Will Cowell
From:
Cambridgeshire, UK
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Posted 11 Apr 2015 9:27 am
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Wow, so encouraging to hear that others don't use picks. I really HATE that "clack, clack, clack" of the picks on the strings. And I hate that with picks I don't know where my fingers end.
Sure, if I persevere long enough, I'll get totally used to them. But I'll have to change the way I do harmonics, and I don't see why I should, quite apart from the horrible noise picks make.
I've been reinforcing my nails like classical guitarists and flamenco artists do. Nobody b*tches about their tone being lacking in any way, do they?
The usual reasoning is "you get better tone with picks". I'm not convinced. Emperor's new clothes, anybody?
_________________
Williams 700 series keyless U12,
Sierra keyless U14, Eezzee-Slide & BJS bars
Moth-eaten old Marshall 150 combo
Roland Cube 80XL, Peterson Strobo+HD,
EarthQuaker Despatch Master for reverb / delay |
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Larry Carlson
From:
My Computer
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Posted 11 Apr 2015 9:47 am
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Whew.......am I glad I am not the only one uncomfortable with picks. I have been told if I don't use picks I ain't doing it right.
I finger picked guitar for 20+ years using my nails. Upon entering the lap steel arena picks were out of the question. They felt like clubs on the ends of my fingers.
After about 5 months of this I have learned to use a thumb pick out of necessity because my nail did not give a good crisp tone like it does on an armpit guitar, mostly because of the difference in angle of attack. My fingernails are working just fine for me and have no intention of using picks on them.
Also, like others here I enjoy the "feel" of the strings on my fingers. It keeps me oriented and connected to the guitar.
I have been told that it doesn't matter how you do it.
If you are enjoying yourself and music is coming out you are doing it right. 
_________________
I have stuff.
I try to make music with it.
Sometimes it works.
Sometimes it doesn't.
But I keep on trying. |
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Bob Russell
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 11 Apr 2015 11:55 am
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I'm with you guys. I like fingers better. Buddy Emmons sounded just fine with fingers. I've seen Russ Pahl playing with just a thumbpick, too, and he sounded really good. If they're "doing it wrong", I wanna do it wrong too.
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Lots of stringy things, many of them slidey. |
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Duane Noom
From:
Whitehall, Michigan, USA
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Posted 11 Apr 2015 12:33 pm
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I've used finger picks for over 30 years. Never thought about going without until lately. Ya'll have given me what I need to put the picks in my pocket and give it a try. Makes me all excited about playing again....Thanks 
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Steel Drinking Coffee Player |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 11 Apr 2015 3:15 pm
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Here is an example of B. Emmons playing without, an audio by Chris Templeton with Emmons, link on this forum page:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=282419&highlight=
If the tone is more muted, it's what I like, altho Georg has the idea.
Maybe it comes from being a bass player. Muting comes with it naturally.
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Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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Chris Templeton
From:
The Green Mountain State
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Barry Hyman
From:
upstate New York, USA
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Posted 11 Apr 2015 5:20 pm
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Everything affects tone. I use fingernails mostly to pick, and (callused) skin to mute. The tone is not quite as bright as what you get with metal fingerpicks, but I like a mellow tone, and one can always bite pretty hard with a fingernail, or even turn up the treble and presence... You can get screaming high harmonics with fingernails, no problem. And my right hand calluses are not nearly hard enough to make any audible sound when I touch a string to mute it.
What prompted this thread is that I have a lap steel student who plays with picks because he has read that that's what you are supposed to do, and because he is a contractor by trade so his fingertips and fingernails are pretty beat up. But he has developed this bad habit (in my opinion) of lifting the bar to mute because he can't mute cleanly and quietly with the plastic thumbpick and metal fingerpicks. Especially the blade of the thumbpick can't seem to get near enough to strings to silence them without clattering on adjacent strings. But obviously some people have no problem doing that; I would like to hear from someone who can tell me how it's done.
_________________
I give music lessons on several different instruments in Cambridge, NY (between Bennington, VT and Albany, NY). But my true love is pedal steel. I've been obsessed with steel since 1972; don't know anything I'd rather talk about... www.barryhyman.com |
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Chris Templeton
From:
The Green Mountain State
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Posted 11 Apr 2015 6:26 pm
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Using bare fingers does also give the option of bringing the nail in for another tonal option, which is nice, but nail maintenance (including using a nail hardener) and the possibility of breaking or chipping one are big drawbacks for not using picks.
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Excel 3/4 Pedal With An 8 String Hawaiian Neck, Sierra Tapper (10 string with a raised fretboard to fret with fingers), Single neck Fessenden 3/5
"The Tapper" : https://christophertempleton.bandcamp.com/album/the-tapper
Soundcloud Playlist: https://soundcloud.com/bluespruce8: |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 11 Apr 2015 8:08 pm
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| Barry Hyman wrote: |
| But he has developed this bad habit (in my opinion) of lifting the bar to mute because he can't mute cleanly and quietly with the plastic thumbpick and metal fingerpicks. |
Lifting the bar is part of my playing style, but in general I don't do it to mute the strings. Rather, I lift the bar a fraction of a millimeter off the strings to move rapidly up and down the neck without audible sliding ... don't think there's anything unusual in that.
| Barry Hyman wrote: |
| Especially the blade of the thumbpick can't seem to get near enough to strings to silence them without clattering on adjacent strings. But obviously some people have no problem doing that; I would like to hear from someone who can tell me how it's done. |
I cut the blade relative short, both on my plastic and my metal thumb-picks, and then polish the "new" tip. That makes the pick stay more stable on my thumb, and I can touch the string(s) with the flesh of the thumb to dampen/mute when I intend to.
Very often I find that I "hammer down" with the thumb, so strings get muted by the side of the finger, before the pick hits the string on the way up. The short blade makes this work quite well.
"Hammering down and picking up" seems to be pretty much how I mute and attack strings with my other fingers with picks on too. The sound coming from "pure pick attack" or "pick/flesh attack", depends on angle of attack, which my "angled hand with almost straight fingers" style, combined with my customized picks, allows me to change for the intended attack sound.
If anyone is interested, here is what I have tried to write about "picking" on one of my web sites...
http://www.gunlaug.no/msc/smc-101226.html |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 11 Apr 2015 8:58 pm
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I believe I'll just keep using picks like 99.5% of the pros. 
_________________
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Hal Braun
From:
Eustis, Florida, USA
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Posted 11 Apr 2015 9:58 pm
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| Henry Matthews wrote: |
| I believe I'll just keep using picks like 99.5% of the pros. |
Henry, I think you just made the point where people feel they are doing something "wrong" if 95% of the people are doing it differently.. well.. that many people thought the world was flat at one time..
I will say, that after watching Jeff N's "Right Hand Alpha" and looking at the shape of his fingers around the nail bed and sides.. I was sure I was not going there.
Glad it works for you and 95% of the others, but I guess being one of those "radical hippie weirdo leftist self-taught iconoclasts" will have do, and if playing without picks makes it easier for some to play, I say go for it, same as playing with effects, playing blues, playing hard rock, playing with a fuzz pedal, overdrive, or whatever.. I think getting a bunch of 20 somethings going after the pedal steel like Jimi on a strat would help mainstream the instrument and that is not all bad. (Listening to Joe Wright crank it up got me in the mood!)
Last edited by Hal Braun on 12 Apr 2015 7:35 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Chris Templeton
From:
The Green Mountain State
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 12 Apr 2015 1:01 am
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I agree with Chris - they're all tools in the toolbox, and I've spent the last several years consciously trying to develop different techniques for different things.
I use finger picks most of the time on pedal steel to get what I consider the signature pedal steel tone that I usually want. For a long time, I mostly used a flat pick and finger picks on regular guitar, it's a particular sound, and I like it.
But there are things for which thumb pick or flat pick and fingers works better for me. I never really found a bare thumb appealing, for me at least.
Playing slide guitar, I definitely prefer a thumb pick and bare fingers if I can get away with it. But I use some pretty tight slide tunings that just eat my fingernails. I usually choose string gauges that give a per-string tension of 28-30 pounds, which comes to something like 14-58 on a standard open-E Vestapol tuning, and high action. After a while, this will just tear my fingernails up - I mean, it literally cuts a deep notch, especially on my middle finger nail, which I hit pretty hard.
But I really think that to get the clear, brilliant tone that I usually want for the classic E9 pedal steel tone, I need finger picks.
I guess if you have classical guitar type nails, you may be able to get that type of brilliance with nails. I don't, so that never worked for me. For me, not being able to use finger picks would be a limitation that I wouldn't want to countenance. |
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Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 12 Apr 2015 5:10 am
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I play acoustic guitar finger style without picks. I have a sort of hybrid method of plucking strings with my thumb, index, & middle...while strumming with the back of my fingernail of my index finger. It produces a unique shuffling rythym. If I need more volume, I use a flat pick, but I lose most of the nuance that way.
Try as I might, I cannot reproduce the finger style method on steel, I have to use picks. Maybe it's because of the closer spacing or the horizontal orientation of the instrument. The same is true with trying to play an acoustic guitar with thumb and finger picks, can't do it.
Regardless of the percentage of players using picks or not, it boils down to "whatever works for you."
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Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe. |
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Frank De Vincenzo
From:
The Garden State
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Posted 12 Apr 2015 6:20 am
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I've been having a really hard time coming to terms with using finger picks. Thanks for this thread. I feel I have been given absolution.
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JusticeJudge |
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Hal Braun
From:
Eustis, Florida, USA
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Posted 12 Apr 2015 6:47 am
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Georg.. I looked at your site and saw the real shape of your picks (which was not apparent in your photo here). I have to say that is VERY interesting.. I hope you dont mind me sharing that picture here..
1. the pick is up above the nail and does not hit the nail bed which seems more comfortable.
2. it appears to let you use both "meat" of your finger and the pick.
Can you give some pointers on how you shape them? do you use a grinding wheel to get the basic shape and a file to smooth? Would love some pointers.
thanks! |
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Mike Wilkerson
From:
Luther Oklahoma
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Posted 12 Apr 2015 3:18 pm
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$1.50 for a package of heat shrink at a parts house shrink with a lighter on the bands BAM!!!! saves nails saves cuticles.Like Jimmy Day told me one time Dance with what brung ya.But not dishing non pick wearers what ever blows your dress up if your comfy not wearing picks so be it have a great day friends..Slim
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S12 MSA Classic Nashville 400 with fox mods amp 1 volume pedal 1 Lil Izzy and 3 cords |
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Joseph Napolitano
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 12 Apr 2015 6:58 pm
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| I mean no disrespect to anyone's approach , but deciding not to use fingerpicks is different from not being able to use them. It wasn't easy for me to learn how to play with picks but I'm glad I stuck with it. IMHO, I think it's best to learn how to use picks, and then ,if for some reason you choose not to use them, so be it. I know Buddy played without picks for awhile , but he could play with his feet and still sound better than me. |
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Mike Wilkerson
From:
Luther Oklahoma
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Posted 12 Apr 2015 8:28 pm
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You're very correct Joseph I was trying to be cute in my post however I have the utmost respect for players who play steel "out of the box".I always find the out of the realm players to be very inspiring....Slim
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S12 MSA Classic Nashville 400 with fox mods amp 1 volume pedal 1 Lil Izzy and 3 cords |
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Dustin Rhodes
From:
Owasso OK
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Posted 13 Apr 2015 7:44 am
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| Joseph Napolitano wrote: |
| I mean no disrespect to anyone's approach , but deciding not to use fingerpicks is different from not being able to use them. It wasn't easy for me to learn how to play with picks but I'm glad I stuck with it. IMHO, I think it's best to learn how to use picks, and then ,if for some reason you choose not to use them, so be it. I know Buddy played without picks for awhile , but he could play with his feet and still sound better than me. |
Yep alot like how Scruggs was a poor banjo player because he had to invent the roll because he couldn't play claw hammer. |
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