foam behind the rollers to stop overtones

Scott Appleton · Post by **Scott Appleton** » 22 May 2004 9:26 pm

Has anyone slipped foam rubber or sponge behind the roller nuts underneath the strings to stop them
singing out of pitch?

------------------
Mullen S12
Acoustic 165 100W tube
71 Tele, Regal 45, Gretch
Lap, Columbia Lap, Line 6

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 22 May 2004 10:15 pm

I like for mine to sing..................bb

Dennis Yager · Post by **Dennis Yager** » 23 May 2004 5:49 am

No foam, but I have intertwined or threaded an o-ring thru the strings to mute this problem. I suppose a thick standard rubber band would also suffice.

Carter s10, Emmons pushpull s12, Evans LV, Peavey N400, Peavey N100, Morrell Lap, 2 Dobros, P. Adverb, RV3, etc. [This message was edited by Dennis Yager on 23 May 2004 at 06:56 AM.]

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 23 May 2004 6:36 am

mega dittos Bobby

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 23 May 2004 8:50 am

...to stop them singing out of pitch?

Shame it won't work on singers.

Wiz Feinberg · Post by **Wiz Feinberg** » 31 May 2004 11:09 am

I lay an extra bar between strings 5 and 6 to kill back overtones on those strings. I helps when tuning since those are the longest strings behind the nut.

------------------
Bob "Wiz" Feinberg
AIM Screenname: Wizcrafts
1983 Rosewood Emmons D10 Push-Pull, with 8 pedals and 9 knee levers, George L's E66 pickups and aluminum necks. Nashville 400 amp with Peavey Mod. Emmons pedalbar mounted and Goodrich LDR volume pedals.
I use and endorse Jagwire Strings and accessories.

Keep Steelin' but don't get caught!

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 1 Jun 2004 4:06 am

I'm with Bobby and Carl. Try using the left hand fingers behind the bar to mute any unwanted overtones. Keyhead overtones help with the overall signature tone of the guitar. You could always buy a keyless guitar.

Paul

Dave Ristrim · Post by **Dave Ristrim** » 1 Jun 2004 4:43 am

I agree that some keyhead overtone is good. But... being a 12 string player, the extra length of the 6th string G# bothers me sometimes. I may try a string tree ( like a tele ) put between the 5th and 8th string tuners inside the keyhead to pull the G# and F# down to add tension. It should still have overtones, but should act more like a 10 string steel. Does this make any sense? What do you think Paul?
Dave Ristrim

Reggie Duncan · Post by **Reggie Duncan** » 1 Jun 2004 4:56 am

Fingers work better.

Dave Ristrim · Post by **Dave Ristrim** » 1 Jun 2004 2:26 pm

Reggie, you misunderstand me. You can't use fingers behind the nut (except maybe at the first couple frets). What my problem is, is that with a 12 string guitar, strings 6 and 7 are longer behind the nut than a 10 string guitar. The extra length also create less of an angle at the nut, which lets the strings (6 & 7) rattle a little more than on a 10 string neck. I may try a string tree. If this works, I'll let ya'll know.
Dave

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 1 Jun 2004 2:32 pm

Paul Franklin is right on. This was a piece valuable knowledge that I learned in Nashville years ago by some very kind master players. For me the keyhead tone signature is a good thing.[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 01 June 2004 at 03:34 PM.]

Dave Ristrim · Post by **Dave Ristrim** » 2 Jun 2004 4:10 am

Just to make sure we're on the same page. Keyhead tone signature is good. I would never mute the strings behind the nut. I just want to add more tension to strings 6 and 7 on a 12 string neck. I would put the string tree between the 5the amd 8th string tuners in the keyhead. That way they would still be free to ring.
Dave

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 2 Jun 2004 5:38 am

Dave,
I'm not clear as to what it is that you are having a problem with .....Is it the offending overtones that you don't like, or is it string rattle ?......I too play 12 string universal, and have played keyless for a while and like it for many reasons....I recently picked up a 12 string that is keyed, and while it seems to have more sustain, I also have the offending overtones that I am not fond of ... I haven't traced the overtones to what the offending strings are, but if you think the 6 and 7 string are the offenders, I would tend to agree with you as I hardly ever hear the offending overtones on a 10 string ... Another thought that I had was that if a 25" scale was implimented for us 12 string players, on a keyed neck , the added string tension just might be enough to kill the unwanted overtones.....I would try the string tree's ....It sounds as logical as any other idea, and you wouldn't kill the overtones completely, but now with a different string length behing the nut, what pitch would the overtones be ???....They would be different , but would they still be offending ???.....Just thinking out loud ...
Try it , it might work ....Let me know what your findings are .....Sincerely, Jim

Dave Ristrim · Post by **Dave Ristrim** » 2 Jun 2004 7:15 am

James, I think you get it. It's mostly the 6th string (.020 plain) that I don't like. I don't want to mute the overtones, but increase the tension with a string tree, which will in effect shorten the string behind the nut. Therefore the overtone may be more like a 10 string steel. I'm done talkin', I will try the idea out and report back.
Dave

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 2 Jun 2004 9:04 am

Here's an idea that might sound a little strange, however; if you're looking for more angle over the roller-nut on strings #6 & #7, why don't you do as was done by some, many years ago? Wrap strs. #6 & #7 backwards on the Tuning-Key Shaft. All you have to remember is to tune those strings by turning the key in the opposite direction, but; you'll definately have more angle over the roller-nut, and therefore more pressure and less noise!¡ Now, I didn't learn this standing up!

------------------
“Big John” Bechtel
Franklin PSG D–10 (9 &

Fender ’49–’50 T–8 Custom
Fender ’65 Reissue Twin-Reverb Custom™ 15”
click here
click here

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 3 Jun 2004 5:23 am

John,
I think wrapping the string backwards would sure help, but I think that there would be more tension added with the string tree added ...Again, I'm no wizz on the physic's of string's.....I would be curious to know what the tension differences are with a string that's pulled on more of an angle side to side, as opposed to one being pulled down on a steeper angle say with a string tree ...Perhaps the string being pulled on the sharper angle when being pulled side to side is actually being pulled stronger against one side of the bridge, and THAT is what is stopping the string buzz...I'm not sure that it would do much of anything to harmonic's though it might.....Again, I'm no scientist ....I could be WAY off base here......Jim

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 3 Jun 2004 9:37 am

"Keyhead tone signature" isn't always a good thing. For example, I have a Stringmaster D-8 with 24 1/2" scale. The keyhead ring of the 4th and 5th strings (the longest strings) actually makes the guitar sound out of tune on certain notes. I use rubber grommets to deaden those two strings in the keyhead.

------------------
<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

Ad Kersten · Post by **Ad Kersten** » 3 Jun 2004 10:35 am

I wind the 6th and 7th string on my S-12 Universal backwards to increase the pressure of the string on the roller nut. It increases tone because otherwise there is a bit of rattle that deadens the tone. The angle is not a problem because the keyheads for these strings is far from the roller nut. The angle on the 3rd string f.i. is much larger.
I do not mute the strings behind the nut.

------------------
Zumsteel S12U

Yo, Man! homepage