Playing lap steel standing up - strap question

[Fred Kinbom]

Hello,

After a show the other night in a reasonably crowded club I was suggested "You should stand up so that people can see you!" And this got me thinking and I am now about to try out playing my lap steels standing up.

So, I was wondering, what experiences have people had with what straps to use when playing standing up? Would any normal, not-too-slippery leather strap work for holding the lap steel steadily in place? I seem to remember seeing long (and rather expensive) dobro straps for sale, but before spending money on this I would like to ask what experiences other players have had with different types of straps.

Thanks in advance!

All the best from Berlin,

Fredrik

[Brad Bechtel]

I stand up both when playing resonator guitar (acoustic) and lap steel (electric).

I use a Webb dobro strap on my dobro. Depending on where you want the guitar to be relative to your body, you may need a longer strap than a regular guitar strap. It would be pretty easy to take your lap steel into a music store and try a couple of straps to see what fits you best.

The big problem with straps on lap steel for me is getting the guitar to face upward so it doesn't lay flat against my body. Some folks like to play that way, but I prefer to see the face of the guitar as I play.

For my electric lap steels, I use one of these choices:

1) A Deluxe 34 stand. This works really well but is more complicated than the others (and of course, more expensive - you get what you pay for).

2) A Morrell lap steel stand. This only works with a few guitars, but works fine for my Rickenbacker lap steel.

3) A keyboard stand. This works pretty well for guitars with a flat back, but isn't as adjustable for my height and doesn't look as cool.

There are lots of other discussions about playing standing up. Do a bit of searching for other people's recommendations.

[Fred Kinbom]

Thanks Brad!

I am in the process of looking through threads on the subject - most seem to be reso-specific though. I am thinking mainly electric lap steel at the moment.

I see there are some very expensive reso straps out there, and while I am sure they are excellent, I think I'll try it all out with making a regular strap work at least until I find out if playing standing up is for me or not.

Cheers,

Fredrik

[Mark Eaton]

Brad mentioned the problem of having the angle of the guitar in the right position when playing standing up. What he didn't mention are the bracing systems available for lap steels to give one more stability while playing standing with a strap.

As I recall Fred you own one or more Lap King steels. I don't know how keen you are on the idea of packing up a guitar and shipping it back across the ocean to Jason Dumont for modification, but what I would do were I in your shoes would have Jason install the brace as shown in the photo below. Or he might be able to send you the brace with instructions on installing it.

I have a very nice resonator strap from Bobby Poff in Wyoming, they are expensive, and to me it's worth it, I feel completely dialed in when playing standing (with a dobro). But for a lot less money you can get a Webb like Brad uses and they seem to be pretty good. It's the strap Rob Ickes uses so if it's good enough for Rob...

Since he started playing Lap Kings on several songs during an evening as an alternative to dobro with his JD Band, I have seen Jerry Douglas play standing using Lap Kings, either the Rodeo or Bel Air model probably eight or nine times. He also uses Poff straps. He looks very comfortable playing standing up. I am on a path myself to get one nice lap steel for playing standing with a strap and a Lap King with the brace is one of the finalists.

[Peter Jacobs]

Fred - I've got a Levy's 2.5" padded leather guitar strap that I use for my stand-up steel (I have the Planet Waves headstock loop thingy on it). The strap has smooth leather on the underside, so it slid around a lot. I ended up gluing a strip of black suede from the craft store to the underside. Problem solved.

I've also used a Neotech guitar Super Ax strap (3.5"). Also padded, doesn't slide at all. It's pretty comfortable, but the neoprene gets a bit warm after a full set. And it doesn't look as nice as the leather one.

Lap steels weigh a bit more than Dobros, so I haven't tried an unpadded strap yet. It might work just fine.

Oh, yeah - remember to use some kind of straplock, either a full blown Dunlop or Schaller or at least a rubber washer.

[Chris Templeton]

My suggestion is that if you stand up and use a volume pedal, standing on the same leg all the time can be quickly become tiresome and can "trickle up" and cause back problems.
Good technique using the instrument volume control is a way of opting out of using a volume pedal.
The standing visual for performance is better for the audience than sitting.
As for a strap: A strap button located at the "heel" of the body (usually at or above the twelfth fret) is good for balance. Also doesn't put stress on the neck, which may also cause tuning problems.

[Mark Eaton]

Chris, I'm intrigued by your idea of having a strap button or some connection for standup playing around the 12th fret, in what would be the "heel" area on a standard round neck electric guitar - I have never seen or heard of someone doing this for standup lap steel. I'm trying to wrap my head around how this would be done with a thick-necked lap steel guitar.

I've also never heard of stress on the neck which might effect tuning - since lap steels usually have beefy necks it strikes me as being unlikely. I have to believe if this were an issue the likes of Jerry Douglas playing a Lap King standing with a strap with one end wrapped around the headstock as in my photo above would have been an issue for him by now. He has played various lap steels in a standing position for many years. Bruce Bouton has also done a fair amount of this over the past several years while on tour with both Reba McEntire and Garth Brooks.

Good suggestion about the volume pedal, but I wouldn't want to get rid of it all together, even though as a kid taking lap steel lessons many moons ago I never had a volume pedal. We learned the whole "swell" business with the volume control using the outside of our right palm.

[Mat Rhodes]

Back in the day I would use a tray that I made with a Lexan bottom (so you could see through to the floor) and an "X" strap (2 guitar straps) so the weight would be evenly distributed and it wouldn't tip over. I will say, though, it got a little heavy. My neck would be tired after doing that for an hour or two. That's why a keyboard stand might make sense when you need a break.

[Peter Jacobs]

Matt -- cool idea. I used to use something Ted Smith came up with called the Outrigger. It was a fiberglass, dobro-shaped shell that bolted to the back of my steel. It worked great but the two downsides were: you had to drill into the back of the guitar to put in two threaded inserts; and after a few years, the fiberglass down by the strap button was looking a bit shaky, and I didn't want to take a chance.

[Chris Templeton]

Mark-You are right-Most lap steels don't have a "heel", like a guitar neck.
No issues with tuning if one isn't moving around a lot. Acoustics/dobros have this problem more, and you are right. Lap steels are beefier, so it's probably much of a worry.
When the instrument is tuned, while standing, It'll stay there. It's just the jostling that can cause problems.
Ray Knapp, who passed away on Maui, built me a stand for my JB Frypan, Other than the legs, the rest was built from the Matson (Hawaiian) shipping container parts that he "found" on them.
Ray was a character, originally from around Jerry Byrd's neck of the woods in Ohio.
A way to help ease potential volume pedal problems when standing up is to learn to use the other foot/leg (usually the left) and rotate legs,

[Larry Dering]

Lets not forget Peavey's entry as they tried to solve the problem with their powerslide guitar that was made to be played standing up. I never tried one but like the concept.

[Greg Maass]

I posted details about the system I came up with here:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... 85#2365785

I use a webb strap along with this belly bar, and it works great. I play an Oahu Diana, which is pretty heavy. I don't really think it is possible to play most lap steels with just a strap- they want to flip over, and they sit too close to your body- you have to compensate with your back or wrist, and it is not sustainable.

I am totally mechanically inept, so believe me, anybody could get the materials and put this together in less than 1/2 hour. I can't imagine having my stand up position being any more comfortable than with this rig.

[Bob Blair]

I've never tried standing with a weissenborn-style guitar, but in this video Steve Fishell was doing it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqXvHXJvk44

[Peter Jacobs]

I posted details about the system I came up with here:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... 85#2365785

I don't really think it is possible to play most lap steels with just a strap- they want to flip over, and they sit too close to your body- you have to compensate with your back or wrist, and it is not sustainable.

I like your idea a lot, Greg. I may give this a try using the leg sockets on my Supro Jet Airliner.

Your point about the depth of the lap steel's body is really important. That's why a lot of belly bars have a bend or a pad to give them more surface against your body. When I decided to get my "Strap Steel" built (the blue guitar in my avatar), one of my criteria to have a body that was 2 1/2" to 3" deep, to keep it from flipping. The down side is more weight (but the guitar is chambered to help with that; the upside is more stability.

Randy Cordle, who valiantly took on the project, came up with the great idea to make the body asymmetrical - the far side of the body isn't as wide as the side against my stomach. This gives me enough hand room while keeping the weight closer to my body.

Speaking of hand room, I asked to have enough room at the tail end to fit my arm through the strap, like with a dobro. I see that Jerry Douglas puts his arm around the strap with his Lap King. Two valid solutions to the problem.

[Fred Kinbom]

Thanks everyone for your posts and advice! Sorry for the slow reply - have been a busy couple of weeks.

Yes, Mark - I have two Lap King Rodeos and I will try Jason's stand-up brace for it.

Thanks for all the strap advice!

Will advice on my progress standing up.

Cheers,

Fred

[Mark Eaton]

Fred, good to know you are still among the living!