String bender on a lap steel

Hans Henrik Rasmussen · Post by **Hans Henrik Rasmussen** » 15 Feb 2015 11:08 am

Hi all,

Wanting to get closer to a pedal steel sound, I have recently learned about the option of fitting string benders on a lap steel. Searching the forum, I have found some of you that have tried this, and so I would very much like to ask those of you who have dabbled with these string benders a couple of questions.

First of all, any input on which type would work best would be great. I have found three different models:

1 - The Duesenberg multi-bender: http://www.thomann.de/dk/duesenberg_multibender.htm
2 - The hipshot benders: http://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.p ... etail&p=19
3 - The EZ bender by Epiphone http://www.acousticmasters.com/Acoustic ... Bender.htm

I would love to hear your experiences about playability, installation and so on.

Also, I think that at least the Duesenberg, but probably also the others, requires more space behind the bridge than what is on my Gibson BR-6 (pictured here: http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/userpix1 ... 0079_1.jpg) so I would maybe have to find another lap steel to install it on, so therefore I would love to hear about the requirements a lap steel should meet for a couple of these string benders to fit on there?

Oh, and just for pure enjoyment. How about this beauty: http://crestonguitars.com/guitars/jay_f ... _lap_steel

Thanks!
Hans

Roman Sonnleitner · Post by **Roman Sonnleitner** » 15 Feb 2015 11:28 am

I've got the Duesenberg Multibender on a homemade lap steel - but I haven't been playing it in a looong time (ever since I got a Fender 400 pedal steel...)

Installing & set-up was easy, finding a tuning not so much - you're really limited by issues of string breakage, and by how many steps you can bend, I originally wanted a C6 tuning with levers that would give me AB-pedal-like licks (transposed from E9 pedal steel) - doesn't work, strings break.
Also, the levers do get in the way when picking or palm-blocking - there's somewhat of a learning curve involved (though there seem to be a few Multibender virtuosos on YouTube).

I believe the Multibender can be useful if you feel limited by a "straight" lap steel, and you can cop a few very basic pedal steel licks, but it is not really a replacement for a real pedal steel - think of it more like a lap steel equivalent of a B-Bender Telecaster...

Tom Pettingill · Post by **Tom Pettingill** » 15 Feb 2015 12:24 pm

A multibender can be some fun, but its not for everyone and as Roman said, its not a pedal steel replacement.

On the subject of string breakage on the Dusenberg, if the break point is happening at the end of the wrap like in the below pic, then that point its most likely riding on the axles pivot point as illustrated in the second pic. One handy solution is to thread a lose ball end off an old string on the new string first. This pulls the contact point back off the axle.

.

Hans Henrik Rasmussen · Post by **Hans Henrik Rasmussen** » 15 Feb 2015 1:04 pm

Thanks guys,

Edit* About the tuning question I was planning to play in Open D or with the 6 strings tuned to the top 6 strings of how a 10-string E9 pedal steel is tuned (so from high to low):

String 1: F-sharp
Stg 2: D-sharp
Stg 3: G-sharp
Stg 4: E
Stg 5: B
Stg 6: G-sharp.

Do you know how that might work with the Duesenberg multibender?

And could you give me an approximate of how much space I need behind the bridge for it to work?

-Hans

Lee Rider · Post by **Lee Rider** » 15 Feb 2015 9:13 pm

Gene Parsons and I just came up with a StringBender that will work on a lap steel. Can adapt a strap or pedal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0FSjkG ... e=youtu.be

Hans Henrik Rasmussen · Post by **Hans Henrik Rasmussen** » 16 Feb 2015 11:45 am

Hi Lee,

That sounds very interesting - especially with the pedal option. I have just sent you a private message to hear more about this.

Oh, and I didn't mean to write in my last message that I wanted to try it in Open D or E, but rather Open D or with the 6 strings tuned to the top 6 strings of how a 10-string E9 pedal steel is tuned (so from high to low):

String 1: F-sharp
Stg 2: D-sharp
Stg 3: G-sharp
Stg 4: E
Stg 5: B
Stg 6: G-sharp

Thanks,
Hans

Peter Funk · Post by **Peter Funk** » 16 Feb 2015 11:56 pm

Hi Hans,

don't know about the "hipshot" or the "EZ" bender, but I'm very satisfied with my Duesenberg. I mounted it on top of my Gretsch Syncromatic and it fits perfectly without any modification. I tune to Open-D and the two levers raise the second string from A to B and the third string fom F# to G.
Here's an example: "Stand By Your Man"

Peter den Hartogh · Post by **Peter den Hartogh** » 17 Feb 2015 5:45 am

Hi Hans

I tried the Duesenberg and the Hipshot.

As I use palmblocking, I find that too many palm levers (Duesenberg or Hipshot) get in the way and inhibit my playing. I found that the kneelever on the Hipshot worked very well and was the easiest to play.

Having said this, if I wanted to try benders again, I would first decide how many notes I want to bend (3).
Then I would decide which bend is the most important or the most used, and give that the easiest bend, in my case that would be the knee lever. Then I would decide on the second most important note and use a Gene Parsons StringBender. And if I wanted a third string bend, only then I would use a palm bender. So there would be only one palm leaver for the least important bend.

My first attempt was built with 8 strings and tuned like a PSG with string 1 and 2 missing and the same bends as a PSG. (Raise B-C#, Raise G#-A, Lower E-Eb. You need to choose which B, which G# or which E you want to bend)

It worked out well, but there were too many palm levers (3) so I could not pick properly.
That's is why I think it would be better to involve 1 knee lever and 1 guitar strap bend and 1 palm lever bend.
Three different mechanisms, used according to priority and difficulty.

There is even an alternative bender system by Tim Wallis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyIIxRzRHtw

Good luck!

Hans Henrik Rasmussen · Post by **Hans Henrik Rasmussen** » 17 Feb 2015 2:30 pm

Thanks Peter and Peter!

Peter Funk: Great playing! Do you have any idea how much space behind the bridge is required for the Duesenberg?

Peter den Hartogh: The Hipshot knee lever sounds very interesting. Do you have pics or links to it? And also, I'm not quite sure what the strap bender is all about, so if you have a link for that it would be great. I'm looking at two benders.

Cheers,
Hans

Peter den Hartogh · Post by **Peter den Hartogh** » 17 Feb 2015 11:42 pm

Hans,
the Hipshot unit comes with a knee lever, a palm pedal and a tuner that retunes the relevant string it is attached to.
So you already have 1 palm lever and 1 knee lever in one unit.
I used it on a dobro and the knee lever worked very well.

I don't have a strap B-Bender picture for a lapsteel, but you can see how it works on a guitar.

Check the relevant websites for sizes.

Just a reminder about the Duesenberg Bender. You do not mount it behind the bridge. The unit REPLACES the bridge and has about 65mm of base plate from its built in bridge towards the end.

Peter Funk · Post by **Peter Funk** » 19 Feb 2015 1:18 am

Hans Henrik Rasmussen wrote:Do you have any idea how much space behind the bridge is required for the Duesenberg?

The Duesenberg comes with it's own bridge, which means you replace the old bridge with the multibender. Really no big deal ...

Here's a picture with a scale (note, that it's in centimeters!):

Hans Henrik Rasmussen · Post by **Hans Henrik Rasmussen** » 19 Feb 2015 2:38 pm

Perfect - thanks. It does look like I will have to find something other than my Gibson BR-6 if it's to work. There really isn't much space behind the bridge on that one.

I'll see if I can find something that fits. Peter den Hartogh, do you have any idea how much space the hipshot takes?

Thanks,
Hans

Peter den Hartogh · Post by **Peter den Hartogh** » 20 Feb 2015 10:01 am

Yep.
The length of the hipshot plate that runs from the tail piece towards the bridge is 9 cm as shown with the ruler.
The width is 6.5 cm and the vertical height of the tail piece section is 4 cm. That means that the body needs to be a minimum of 4 cm thick. If it is less, then the bottom of the tail piece section will stick out a little. There is a slot for the tail piece strap button, so adjustments can be made.

Please do note that the knee lever moves to the right with the right knee. If the guitar is on your lap it might slide to the right when the knee lever is used. So you might need a small bracket at the bottom of the guitar for the left knee to hold the guitar in place.

The unit will work best on a solid body guitar. Even better if the solid body guitar has legs.
I had it on an acoustic guitar, but the guitar was too light and was moving around a lot. And I did not want to screw a bracket in the back of the guitar. I also had it on a dobro which was a bit heavier, but had the same problem.

The Hipshot is actually designed to be mounted on a solid body guitar and operated by the hip. You can see this here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQZqjZZkVEo

Chris Templeton · Post by **Chris Templeton** » 20 Feb 2015 11:17 am

String bending for guitars and lap steels is a nice concept, but remember, the non-bent strings often go out of tune when string benders are used. There isn't the body "heft" that a pedal steel has, and even with a pedal steel there can be tuning problems.

Robert Murphy · Post by **Robert Murphy** » 21 Feb 2015 7:41 am

Here's a Hipshot double palm bender on a Squire Tele with a Lapdancer neck. Top 3 strings are tuned G B D with 1/2 tone bends on G & B. Stays in tune, although the whole step bends I tried were not as stable. I changed out the saddles to Tusq the nut is brass and the tuners are Schaller lockers. A solid .026 G string worked best. String 4 is E for a nice minor to major bend and B to C bend makes a Sus 4.

Jack Aldrich · Post by **Jack Aldrich** » 21 Feb 2015 2:44 pm

Not to be a spoil sport, but bending notes is why I have my Carter D10 (8/5) and my ShoBud ProIII D10 (8/4). If I want a pedal steel sound, I play pedal steel, and, if I want a lap steel sound, I play lap steel. I love both sounds!

Richard Bowden · Post by **Richard Bowden** » 15 Sep 2016 12:59 pm

Epiphone doesn't make the EZ Bender anymore. It is my invention and I now make them in my own shop at www.bowdenbbenders.com. I have them for all types of tailpieces (they mount on the tailpiece) and I have put them on lap steels on more than one occasion.

Stefan Robertson · Post by **Stefan Robertson** » 16 Sep 2016 1:19 am

I'm finding that as I'm piecing more together on the jigsaw puzzle this is Lap Steel Guitar.

You only need to know how and where to slant your bar and you can get some pedal sounds.