Issues with my LDG

Brent LaBeau · Post by **Brent LaBeau** » 7 Apr 2004 10:39 am

Hi, I'm finally a forum member, after a year of lurking I finally made the plunge and joined up. Ya'll just have too much fun (what's that mean?)
Thank you B0B, Ricky Davis, Al Marcus, and everyone else here at the forum that has guided me through this, my second attempt at PSG. (I'm still kicking myself for letting my old Sho-Bud Pro II get away from me for $500.)
Now I have owned and played six string non-pedal for 20 years. (G-Dobro, C6, and most recently C6/A7) But about 2 years ago I ran across a deal that I could not pass up. A N.O.S. (New Old Stock) Sho-Bud LDG.
UNBELIEVABLE!!!! I actually pulled the packing material out from the undercarriage! I am this beauty's first owner.
O.K. here's my problem, I don't want to change the LDG up too much, but I miss my C6 voicings.
The E9 tuning is growing on me and I think that if I add a few changes (currently 3x4, I think I'd like 5x5) I could accomplish pretty much anything that I wanted to play. (I mainly play alt-country, rock, and blues) And still have plenty of room to grow.
But I'm hesitant to go changing up this pristine guitar. I know it's just a tool. But how often does one find a vintage PSG that's never been played before?? Every drop of blood, sweat, & chicken grease on this thing is all me! I'll try to keep it the rest of my life. (Never say never) But now I feel like I’m married to this E9 tuning. I cut my teeth on C6 lap steel. And I feel drawn to rhythmic options available to the Sacred Steel. Oh my aching head! Does any one know where I can find an inexpensive D-10 that's easily converted? I'm pretty sure that's the only way to maintain the original integrity of the LDG, yet indulge my need for other sonic options. Thoughts?

Thank you again for this forum and, in advance, for your constructive comments.

Rev. Brent LaBeau
[This message was edited by Brent LaBeau on 07 April 2004 at 11:44 AM.][This message was edited by Brent LaBeau on 09 April 2004 at 01:38 PM.]

Bill Ford · Post by **Bill Ford** » 7 Apr 2004 11:26 am

Brent,
The second guitar to experement with is a good idea, such a shame to mess with a legend like LDG.Keep checking buy/sell on the forum...

Bill

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 8 Apr 2004 1:41 pm

It would be great to keep the LDG as is and get another horn to experiment with in terms of other pulls. If I had one, I'd really try to keep it stock, especially a pristine new in box instrument.

When you realize what Lloyd can do with his "simple" setup, it is amazing. On the other hand, what C6 sounds can't Randy Beavers get out of an E9 neck? Decisions, decisions...but congratulations on that amazing find!

There are lots of good used D10's floating around. I picked up a Carter last year, added some pulls to the C6 neck and wouldn't want to be without them. I love the lower register of the C6 tuning and the voicings that are available, and I don't believe I could get that on the E9th myself.[This message was edited by John McGann on 08 April 2004 at 02:43 PM.]

Brent LaBeau · Post by **Brent LaBeau** » 9 Apr 2004 12:24 pm

Well would it really diminish the value of the instrument (*not that it will be for sale any time soon!) to add say 2 pedals and 1 vertical kicker? (That would bring me to 5x5) It seems to me that this would be an improvement, like upgrading the suspension or brakes on an old Chevy Malibu.
Also, $200 worth of changes is a whole lot more paletable to the family's finances than a $1,000+ new(to me)deck. Then there's the resulting divorce, child support, alimony, cost of the court. I'd be workin' two shifts, eatin' baloney, with no cash for strings.
I know I probably sound ridiculous. But I just don't want to screw this old Sho-Bud up and be without again.
Ugh!

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 11 Apr 2004 6:43 pm

would it really diminish the value of the instrument (*not that it will be for sale any time soon!) to add say 2 pedals and 1 vertical kicker?

The simple answer is most definitely yes. You have a classic steel that has some collectible value. How much additional value is due to collectibility is hard to answer. But there is some. There are probably only a few anywhere in the world in the condition of yours. If you play it, it will diminish in value. If you get a scratch on it, it will diminish in value. If the vinyl case rips anywhere, it will diminish in value. And most certainly, if you add on additional parts that in any way require work on the steel (ex. drilling holes) or that will mark up the steel and make it look like work was done, it will diminish in value. The next question to ask yourself is, would you rather keep the isntrument pristine, untouched new so that it retains it's collectible value and maybe even grows over time, or would you rather play it and make it into an instrument you will enjoy performing with. When you can answer that question, you will know what to do.

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Lefty · Post by **Lefty** » 21 Apr 2004 5:39 pm

Brent,
I had pretty much your same dilima. I have a LDG (Natural finish) Left-handed model that I ordered new. I always wanted the C6th neck, and thought about trying to add one on the back. I finally decided on getting a double, and found my Dekley on the forum at a pretty good price. I don't regret it, and still have my LDG stock, and pristene. With you being right handed you can find a decent D-10 for probably not much more than a conversion would cost on your LDG.
Good luck,
Lefty,
Sho-Bud LDG
Dekley D-10

Gary Goodman · Post by **Gary Goodman** » 26 Apr 2004 10:38 pm

Brent,
I have been playing my LDG for almost 30 years, I have bought other steels, but never let go of my LDG, the other steels sounded good but none were as sweet sounding as my LDG. I am now replacing bell cranks as several have broken with much use. I am considering putting a vertical lever on it.
I don't think I will ever consider selling it. What I want is the playability I have a Derby 3x5 but it stays home all the time and I use my LDG for my gigs. I am playing every weekend with a double header thrown in occasionaly.

Gary

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Sho-Bud LDG, Evans Fet 500, Nashvill 400, Hilton volume pedal[This message was edited by Gary Goodman on 26 April 2004 at 11:40 PM.]

Terry Wendt · Post by **Terry Wendt** » 26 Apr 2004 11:12 pm

A lot of similar C6 voicings and intervals can be found on E9, with only a few correct knee lever changes. I can think of adding one knee (vertical) to your guitar and that would be enough. I play an LDG with 2 floor pedals and 5 knee levers. The BIG BOTTOM chords are not there, but the improvisational stuff can be found. Let me know if you're interested, I think I have a pedal set-up around here somewhere. Either way, good luck!

Regards,
tkw
tkw@PedalSteel.us

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Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 27 Apr 2004 8:02 am

I just got a great deal on a 1970 Sho-Bud Professional, mint condition with original 8/2 and no extra holes drilled. Looked just like my old red one I got in 1971. And with killer sound, but the atrocious rack and barrel undercarriage.

I've had much experience with this mechanical design, having owned 3 SB's with this undercarriage. Even when my friend Ricky Davis, who does wonders with this type of guitar, says he can make them play "perfectly," he admits that he can only get them to play as perfectly as this undercarriage is capable of. Which falls far short of what a modern undercarriage can produce in terms of staying in tune and consistent operation.

So I sent this guitar off to Duane and Jeff to make the vintage cabinet into a modern guitar that I can play professionally.

I don't believe that in the steel guitar world, the same criteria for "vintage value" exist as they do in the standard guitar world. For one thing, there are far more collectors of standard guitar than there are steel collectors, so the pool of money that demands pristine, untouched instruments is larger, and there's more seller competition for those dollars. So there's nit-picking going on about correct screws and date codes on potentiometers.

Secondly, the 1954 Stratocaster is still a fully functional guitar in 2004, having all the characteristics of most current production guitars... the technology in Strat-building hasn't changed that much. Unless we're talking lap steels, Bigsbys or first generation Sho~Buds, where the limitations of the guitars are accepted by the players, a steel guitar built in the late 60's will have far inferior playability to a guitar made in the last decade or so. The steel guitar community is primarily populated by players who want a guitar to work correctly in performance.

So I made the decision with all my vintage horns that I want them to be able to be played and enjoyed by me. My wraparound Emmonses originally came with no knee levers. They now have original Emmons knee levers.

Whenever I modifiy a steel, I ask myself this question:

Should I ever want to sell this guitar for the best amount of money I could get, should I wait for the buyer who would pay for a guitar with no knee levers because it's 'totally original,' and ignore the players who'd say "I'd like it 'cause it's so cool, but without levers I can't use it." Or should I make the instrument as attractive to as many players as possible without destroying the intrinsic integrity of the instrument, thereby enlarging the potential group of buyers and so generally increasing the marketability of the guitar?

To reiterate: my experience buying and selling steels is that "pure original" is not as important as "fully functional" to most in our community. You will occasionally find the buyer demanding purity, but the pool of buyers is quite small, IMHO.

What's your philosophy? It's a judgement call on what an individual wants to do. I look at these types of guitars not so much as museum pieces (by the time I get them, that condition's long gone anyway), but as makers of music that allow me to perform my job in the way I like best.

If it were me and I liked the LDG more than anything, I'd send it to Duane Marrs and have him add two extra pedals and another knee lever using his undercarriage. But, that's just me.

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[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 27 April 2004 at 09:06 AM.]