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Topic: Play The Tune Dammit!!!! |
Jerry Johnston
From:
Roscommon,MI. USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2015 2:12 pm |
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I brought this subject a couple of years ago and it evoked a lot of discussion. I'm bringing it up again because it is getting much worse. When it come to the instrument break in a song---especially the recordings coming out of Nashville---the instrument, whatever it might be, plays every new "hot lick" they've learned and to hell with the tune. I think it is an insult to the song writer. If you don't like the melody the writer gave HIS song, write your own damn song, but don't change his.
Another thing destroying country music is the use of thunder drums, booming bass and distortion guitar. I heard a song on the radio today which was a beautiful ballad. I think the title was "can I trust you with my heart". It had a beautiful intro, the lyrics were powerful and the vocalist was doing a great job (I think it was Travis Tritt). When the instrument break came, a screaming distortion guitar totally destroyed the song. I don't think it played a single note that was in the original melody.
WHATAYATHINK? |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 8 Jan 2015 3:53 pm
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I think it gets terribly boring if every song you hear has the solo the same as the melody. Why have a solo? Just keep singing. But, I don't think the soloist should step out into left field for the solo either. That's the reason I can't stand Brad Paisley.
_________________
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 8 Jan 2015 3:59 pm
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I don't need someone to repeat the melody to me--I need another viewpoint to the story.
I like improvisation by people who are great at it. Sometimes they use the melody as a launching pad, which is fine with me. I like exciting and adventurous players who elevate the music. That is what I strive for and why I could never take a gig that asked me to play the melody. If I do play it, it's my decision.
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John Booth
From:
Columbus Ohio, USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2015 4:11 pm
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I like to at least mix the melody a little into my lead guitar parts, so it's
recognizable, but I don't stick to the melody only.
Hopefully I'll get better at doing the same on the steel.
_________________
Jb in Ohio
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 8 Jan 2015 5:55 pm
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When it comes time to play a ride, I usually play what I want to play - not what the singer, the writer, or the audience wants me to play. (I can do that and get away with it.) Many years ago, I bought Connie Smith's "I'll Come Runnin" specifically because Weldon tore it up (in a good way) with his own unmatchable playing! If that song had just a simple melody-line ride, it would have been long since forgotten...by me, and everyone else. But thanks to Weldon, it'll forever be a shining star for pedal steelers. 
So, I'll agree with the stuff about the bass, drums, and crunchy lead guitars. But when I hear a steeler, any steeler, playing "just the melody", by the time he's played three songs, I'm bored. I've heard all he can do. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 9 Jan 2015 4:31 am
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It seems great improvisation plays all around the melody but isn't stuck to it.
I think of it as paying homage to the melody, if it's a good one.
Improvisation would be a tribute to the songwriter rather than an insult.
Changing the chords, that would be different.... |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 9 Jan 2015 12:59 pm
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One song makes me disagree with the original poster and that's Conway Twitty's "Lost in the Feeling".. Check out John Hughey's solo(s) on this cut.. Plays through the changes magnificently, never playing the melody and does nothing but enhance the song and moving it to a much higher level. It wouldn't be anywhere near as outstanding a recording if he'd only played the melody......JH in Va.
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Darrell Birtcher
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Posted 9 Jan 2015 1:18 pm
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Jerry, you took the words right out of my mouth! That solo instantly came to mind as I started reading this thread and I was formulating my posting as I read along.
Soloing is about taking the song to a new place, not just repeating the melody. That is not the definition of a solo, it's the definition of repetition. |
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Niels Andrews
From:
Salinas, California, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2015 1:18 pm
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Funny thing, listening to most "modern country breaks" I don't find the pentatonic scale that exciting. Must be me.
_________________
Die with Memories. Not Dreams.
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Niels Andrews
From:
Salinas, California, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2015 2:38 pm
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I see a good solo as one that is inspired by the melody, not necessarily the melody. To me Mr. Hughey in his solos sang his own verse with his guitar. I believe that this is the difference between truly great solo's. John Hughey was the master of that, as great as Vince Gill is, he owes a lot of his success to Mr. Hughey. Certainly "Look at Us" is a sterling example.
And again Earnest did you get the point they were trying to make with that song? and the organ solo really makes the song work for me. 
_________________
Die with Memories. Not Dreams.
Good Stuff like Zum S-12, Wolfe Resoport
MSA SS-12, Telonics Combo. |
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2015 2:54 pm
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Give a song to 10 singers and you’ll get 10 different versions of that song...each person brings their own perspective to a song...you can be true to the melody without strictly playing it, can’t you?...the same goes for steel players...I love to hear Buddy, John and Lloyd and today I’m listening to Randy Beavers and am blown away by his approach...I agree that it get’s pretty boring if the same thing keeps being brought to the table...when I hear something that someone else has done, it makes me think, and hopefully grow musically in a little different direction than I may have been heading.
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Jerry Johnston
From:
Roscommon,MI. USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2015 3:42 pm
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| I feel it is harder to play the original melody and add feeling and expression--ala Jerry Byrd--than to play your own "learned" licks. There seems to be a lot of you guys who would rather take the easy way. Like I said before, if you don't want to play the writers melody, make up your own song but don't contaminate his. |
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Niels Andrews
From:
Salinas, California, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2015 4:03 pm
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There is a huge World of difference between not playing the melody because you want to do something different and the fact you just can't play the melody. In most low level bands the guy playing lead will break into a pentatonic box or boxes and think they are really tearing it up, not. Incorporating the melody with improvisation really can change a solo up and result in a more interesting work.
_________________
Die with Memories. Not Dreams.
Good Stuff like Zum S-12, Wolfe Resoport
MSA SS-12, Telonics Combo. |
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Jerry Johnston
From:
Roscommon,MI. USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2015 4:17 pm
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| When I previously brought up this subject, someone quoted Chet Atkins. "If you are playing a song and your Mother walks into the room, she should be able to recognize it". What I am hearing more and more is that NO ONE could recognize the song from the instrumental break. The worst thing I've ever suffered through, was Stevie Wonder singing the national anthem. He inserted his own melody--YUCK. There is enough variety in country songs that you should never get bored playing the melody. ADMIT it guys, you are inserting your licks because you can't play the melody with feeling and expression. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 9 Jan 2015 6:05 pm
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I've heard enough solos by Emmons, Hughey, Green, etc that wasn't them playing the melody. Are you that good and have the balls to tell any of the pros that they're doing it wrong? Let's hear some of your stuff. In other words, put up or shut up!
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 9 Jan 2015 6:15 pm
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Jerry, I think you're confusing instrumental music (steel guitar recordings) with "instrumental breaks" on recordings with vocalists.
Yes, Byrd, Atkins, and others played beautiful melodies on their instrumental records, and are well known for that. But that's not what we're talking about here. We are talking about "instrumental breaks" on songs where there is a vocalist. All of the great players create great improvised solos, and very rarely play the melody for an instrumental break.
Regarding your Stevie Wonder rant... that's off topic. It has nothing to do with Soloing.
According to your logic, Buddy Emmons, Lloyd Green, John Hughey, Paul Franklin, Jerry Byrd, and all other great steel players "take the easy way out" (your words) because they can't play the melody with feeling? 
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Last edited by Doug Beaumier on 9 Jan 2015 11:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 9 Jan 2015 6:38 pm
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Jerry, you have a pretty shitty attitude for a musician.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 9 Jan 2015 6:47 pm
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I'm glad I'm not the only "lazy" player on here that this **** has pissed off.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 9 Jan 2015 7:26 pm
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I guess I should take this opportunity to tell Paul, Tommy, bruce, etc what no-talent hacks they are because I have heard them play solos that were not note for note copies of the melodies. It's good that John, Weldon, Hal and Ralph have left us. I'd sure hate to have to listen to them play a solo that wasn't a copy of the melody.
Sorry to be so sarcastic. This dude just slipped some thorns into my shorts.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 9 Jan 2015 10:32 pm
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i guess we perceive things differently. i felt john's incredible take in lost in the feeling adheres to and totally builds upon the melody, lifting it to incredible heights.
just beautiful. some progressions just beg for the melody to ooze through them. |
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Thank you, Richard and Mike, I think you said what a lot of us are feeling now. This guy is dead wrong, totally confused, doesn't understand quotes by the pros, and doesn't know what the hell he's taking about. Right now it's him against the rest of the Forum.