Emmons p-p tuning problem

Jim Stewart · Post by **Jim Stewart** » 26 Mar 2004 7:05 pm

I have worked on the underside of a lot of
guitars, but never previously on the push-pull.
Trying to help a fellow local player who
apparently has never tuned his D-10 properly &
has played for years with pedal changes off the
mark!!
His 1975 model is in perfect condition. I
was able to tune everything without difficulty
except for insufficient lowering of 8th string
on the E9 neck (the 4&8 lever). In analysing
the mechanism, it seems that lowering requires
that the raise mechanism move back
to allow it, but the amount of lowering is
then limited by the screw which has tuned the
open string. I am reluctant to start adjusting
collars and bell cranks, until I have a better understanding.
I have emailed the Emmons company but
so far have not received a reply.
Would appreciate advice, either as a reply to
this post or by email.
Thanks!!

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 26 Mar 2004 7:28 pm

Jim your changer must be in tune first. It sounds like the raise collars for the bottom two strings are too close to the bell crank. They should be about 1/4 of an inch from the crank. You almost have to get the lowers before the raises. Before you move anything get the changer in tune. Tune the strings open, then reach under the guitar and pull the raise finger as far as it will go and tune at the peghead. Then adjust at the endplate for the open string. Then push the changer back as far as it will go and tune the lower at the endplate. The changer will now be in tune. This might be it but I would sooner say it is the raise collars. You might have to loosen all then collars on that change and start from scratch. It all depends. Good luck.

------------------
1985 Emmons push-pull,S-10 Marlin,Evans SE200,Hilton pedal

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 26 Mar 2004 8:24 pm

Craig is correct.

Remember on an Emmons' P/P, all raises overide lowers. So there must always be enough slack in the raise rod to cover the full lower.

Again as Craig said, the way to tune is:

1. Tune all maximum raises at the key head first.

2. Tune the lower screws on the end plate for correct open pitch on those raises in step 1.

3. Tune all non raised strings at the keyhead.

4. Tune the lowers using the upper screws in the end plate.

5. If you have any half-tone raises such as the 4th string (F lever) on E9th, reach under the guitar and tune it with the half-tone raise adjustment screw.

If you do not follow this, you can chase your tail all night. So just take it slow and make sure you understand each step first. With a little practice, you can tune a P/P very easily.

Just don't forget that you MUST have enough slack in any raise that is also lowered. This may, as Craig says, require you to adjust a collar on a given raise rod.

Also, in order to get enough travel you may have to relax the stop screw on the pedal crank adjustment screw. This is the secondary stop and should be adjusted to hit just a millisecond after the raise finger has hit the stop.

So if you find yourself not having enough raise slack travel to cover a lower, back off on the pedal crank screw. Then tune as above, then go back and adjust the crank screw as stated above.

Good luck and may Jesus bless you in your quests,

carl

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 26 Mar 2004 10:55 pm

When you tune the lower note, make sure that the rod that pushes the lowering finger segment doesn't dislodge from its location on the finger as you push the assembly back by hand.
R B

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 27 Mar 2004 6:39 am

Richard is absolutely correct. And a point often overlooked by unsuspecting players. I do not recommend moving the changer fingers by hand; because of this very phenomenon. If you follow the above steps, you will get and Emmons' P/P in tune and it will all work out.

carl

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 27 Mar 2004 6:46 am

Jim----John Lacey's web resource is an indispensable how-to. A print-out must.
http://www.melmusic.com/laceyj/guide.html

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 27 Mar 2004 9:33 am

I am ahead of you I e-mailed him the handbook.

Jim Stewart · Post by **Jim Stewart** » 28 Mar 2004 12:52 pm

Thanks to all who replied and made the
problem rather simple. Thanks also to Jon Light for the referral to the Emmons site which
had an excellent tutorial, including a description of my specific problem.
After studying the suggestions and the
tutorial, I made two simple adjustments. First,
moved the 8th string raise collar back about
1/4 inch. Then, realizing that the 4th raise
would start well before the 8th, I ajdusted the
4th bell crank, so that the two strings would
raise at the same time. Found I had adequate
lowering. Problem solved. Thanks a bunch to
all.

John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 29 Mar 2004 4:45 am

Jim, glad to see my site helped you out. There is quite a bit of latitude in the PP guitars but the basic physics of the mechanism must be understood first, especially setting the changer so that the lifts and pushes are preset properly. Happy hunting!