Why do we have shaky steels?

[Tony Palmer]

I was watching a bunch of YouTube videos on my tv (awesome! use my Roku box )and couldn't help notice all the steels were moving sideways when the players used the knee levers. Of course I know this already but when you see it on a big screen tv it's even more conspicuous.
That's always been a pet peeve of mine...unsuccessfully trying to find a steel that was rock solid.
I wonder, with all the sophistication that goes into these fine instruments, why they haven't been engineered to be more stable? Those levers exert a lot of torque on the metal body and they end up rocking like a boat. Thoughts?

[Jim Cohen]

Older MSA or Sierra?

[Tony Palmer]

Yes to the older MSA....I used to own one but the trade off was it was a heavy beast!
Real heavy. No to the Sierra, as I have three Session models and they all move...unless you mean the old style, which I never played.
But the real question is why aren't the new ones engineered to be more solid and not move ?
Maybe cross braces are needed...

[Roger Shackelton]

Fender Pedal Steel Guitars used a larger diameter leg & the threaded end was a 3/4" X 10 thread.

If modern PSGs used that size of threaded leg insert they wouldn't sway.

Roger

[Jim Priebe]

And if a player is hitting the notes, the problem is ????
I've never seen one crack off at the legs (yet).
Cab drop is a bigger problem and it's not even visible (thank goodness!).

[Lane Gray]

With time, the screws securing the endplates to the cabinet can loosen. This makes it worse.

[John Booth]

With time, the screws securing the endplates to the cabinet can loosen. This makes it worse.

True that !

[Dave Diehl]

Jim's right. I have an MSA Classic D10 and it's steady as a rock. Heavey but steady!

[Lee Dassow]

Neither does my MSA. The BMI'S are rock solid too.
My left knee's on my 12 string are each pulling three strings. Doesn't even flinch. Just a theory but other brands may be weaker because of the type of wood in the front and rear aprons. Tenn. Lee

[Herb Steiner]

Just the act of assembling and disassembling the instrument thousands of times puts wear and tear on the aprons and endplates, both the screw holes that mount the cabinet, and the aluminum female threads in the endplates that connect to the (much harder) steel nipple on the legs.

And those amongst us that carry their steels assembled in the van also put great amounts of stress on the aprons and endplates. So and older guitar generally has this type of wear and tear to overcome.

[Henry Matthews]

The lighter model steels are going to move a little even if everything is tight. I don't think that is a drawback at all, just a fact. Also, some players hit their levers much harder than others. My 40+ year old P/P's don't move at all but they are heavy guitars.

Also what Herb said, any guitar is going to loosen over time from taking apart and putting back together and or riding setup, which may cause some looseness in the parts, legs, endplates, etc.

[Jack Aldrich]

I really haven't had this problem with my ShoBuds and my Carter. I just make sure the legs are on good and tight.

[Tony Smart]

"Shaky Steels?"
Cause:- Too much time at the Bar.

[Donny Hinson]

This invention (called a "Brad's Rack") made back in the '70s solved the problem, but was just too heavy and bulky to gain any appeal. Anyhow, most instruments move a little, and it only matters if you think it does!

[Tony Palmer]

Wow now that's what I'm talking about...minus the weight
On the other hand I wonder if an extra pedal bar across the top would make a difference?
I photoshopped this image to illustrate...

[Donny Hinson]

...I wonder if an extra pedal bar across the top would make a difference?

That might help a little, but a diagonal brace would be far more effective.

[Earnest Bovine]

On the other hand I wonder if an extra pedal bar across the top would make a difference?

What would help would prevent change of distance between top right and bottom left, & vice versa. Tension is easier than compression so a pair of wires in an X shape firmly fixed would solve it.

[Jack Stoner]

I have very little movement out of my Franklin when operating the knee levers (and none with the pedals).

[Tommy Mc]

On the other hand I wonder if an extra pedal bar across the top would make a difference?

My first steel was a "Little Buddy" by USA Steel. That thing would rock if you just looked at it sideways. I was working in a Formica shop at the time, so I built a matching replacement pedal bar. It was probably 6" high and attached with 2 screws/wing-nuts on each leg...4 total. Having two anchor points on each leg made it a lot steadier.
I sold (unloaded) the instrument years ago, but here's a photoshop of what it looked like:
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[Ian Rae]

That replacement deep pedal bar is in effect a pair of diagonal braces - excellent idea. I was thinking how any sort of diagonal piece in the top corner is an aesthetic no-no that reduces the magical PSG to nothing prettier than a cheap folding table.

Cast endplates screwed to a wooden cabinet will work loose. Woodscrews are not designed to withstand the lateral forces. Better if they aren't countersunk, but still not good.

Here is a picture of a ZB Custom where all the parts are welded together.



Looks like it should be rock solid if the leg threads are good. I was summoned to examine the mechanism and I never set it up so I don't know for sure. Any ZB owner care to comment?

[Bill Shipman]

I have a Nashville Ltd that does that quite a bit. However, in all fairness to the steel, it has been raised up almost 5 inches in height due to my being 6'8" tall. Beyond that, I believe that the end cap design is a bit flawed by only having 1 screw that attaches each corner to the rails. These screw holes have over time stripped out and I am having to put oversized screws in. Hopefully this will help in that department. One other problem I had is that the changer had moved forward on 1 side as the screw holding the changer to the body also stripped out and even putting a bolt through it was not enough to salvage it. Wound up having to have a piece of aluminum attached to the body so as to straighten it out and to make sure it would not break free again.
It was canted enough that my steel repair man thought that it was a 24 inch span and turned out to be 24 1/4. This also caused the fingers to no be properly aligned. Nothing moved smoothly and in fact you could not pull the strings unless the pedals were attached. It was that bound up.

[David Mason]

Why? Acceptance, complacency, lack of innovation... "if it was good enough for so-an-so to play "Nightlife"..." In the 1960's, cars used to rattle apart too. Now they're lighter, get better mileage and last four times as long. Because the design changed.... But you can't improve perfection, and everything is perfect. Like smoothbore muskets and lead pipes.

[Les Cargill]

I'm being pedantic, but the British Army used smooth bore muskets until the mid 19th century because rate of fire was a skosh better and tactics were still skirmish line, until the percussion cap. If you've ever loaded a Kentucky Long Rifle, you'll know why. It's *work*. So you never can tell what will be the priority.

[Mike Perlowin]

This is Harry Partch's Surrogate Kithera. Note how the body and seat are a single integrated unit. Perhaps if there was some way of attaching a steel to our paca-seats, the steel would be less inclined to shake or walk.

[John Booth]

This is Harry Partch's Surrogate Kithera. Note how the body and seat are a single integrated unit. Perhaps if there was some way of attaching a steel to our paca-seats, the steel would be less inclined to shake or walk

Wow, That is very cool !
Here's the Fender PS-210 that does a similar thing