Half stop - hitting the D without its help

Mark Nix · Post by **Mark Nix** » 13 Oct 2014 7:59 am

When I depress my RKR, I reach where I can "feel" a stop. This stop just so happens to be on the D note. The spot I feel is not where the half stop hits it. I can't determine the exact location of what is making it stop there though. Either the string 3 raise on the c6 neck is at the just right spot to be its own half stop or the mechanics could be worn into that perfect spot to stop. I haven't investigated the latter, it's just a theory if nothing else makes sense.

On any account, since this is stopping on its own where it needs, do you think i could remove the half stop setup and move it to my RKL for a stop between G and G#/E and not have adverse effects on my rkr stopping in the right place? I'm sure the spring on it changes the pressure to stop where it should, but I wasn't sure if it would have an effect on the stopping point.

Thanks,
Mark

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 13 Oct 2014 9:21 am

"Happy accident" feel stops aren't tunable.
But if it falls in the right place, it will be fine. Unless you change string gauges on either string.

Mark Nix · Post by **Mark Nix** » 13 Oct 2014 9:45 am

So try and remove it and as long as it still falls into place all should be good?

Thanks

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 13 Oct 2014 9:50 am

To double check, you don't have to remove it. Just drastically detune the half stop. If the other string is doing the job, that won't change a thing.

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 13 Oct 2014 9:51 am

Typically it is the 9th string lower that enables the 1/2 stop feel on the 2nd string although the 3rd string change (usually the lower) on the C6th neck is not uncommon to be used in conjunction with it and Lane is right- it is a happy accident along with proper positioning of the pull rods that enables this. When the lowers are used the feel can be adjusted by 1-minimizing the pressure needed to get the 2nd string to return and 2- increasing the tension on the other change when a lower is used to increase the tension on the stop.

Mark Nix · Post by **Mark Nix** » 13 Oct 2014 11:19 am

Jim, my half stop is on string 6 but the "happy accident happens with this much space between the half stop, ie before it reaches the half stop. (See pic below)

My rkr controls the string 3 raise on c6, rkl controls the 3 string lower on c6.

Also I have heard a few people say that on their half stop it is hard, if not impossible, to return to the D from the C#. Mine returns to its "happy accident" spot perfectly in tune at D from C#.

So with the gap between there, that makes the presumption it will be safe to move it to my RKL and still accomplish my half stop at the happy spot on the rkr?

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 13 Oct 2014 11:43 am

Indeed. If that picture is taken at D, your half-stop isn't doing anything. As long as it's in a workable D, I'd feel free to move your half-stop somewhere else.

Mark Nix · Post by **Mark Nix** » 13 Oct 2014 11:52 am

Yes that is at D and it's dead on with my string 9. Thanks Lane.

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 13 Oct 2014 11:59 am

I think removing the half stop would actually improve the feel since it is not doing the job. It is just causing as secondary hitch and harder travel the rest of the way to the C#. Take it off.
Jerry

Mark Nix · Post by **Mark Nix** » 13 Oct 2014 12:15 pm

Thanks for the insight, jerry. I was thinking it would have an effect on it but I didn't know if it would hurt the feel if removed or not. The added tension makes it not so easy to get to the full lowered position. I'm sure the reduced tension will help with that too, right?

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 13 Oct 2014 12:40 pm

Yes it would Mark.
Jerry

Larry Hamilton · Post by **Larry Hamilton** » 13 Oct 2014 3:13 pm

Terry Bethel turned me onto the Crawford D about 7 years ago and never looked back. Minimal getting used.
Hughey used one knee to lower to D and another to lower to C#. He didn't like half-stops either.

Tim Sergent · Post by **Tim Sergent** » 13 Oct 2014 6:59 pm

I too took a page out of the "Bethel Book of Knowledge" after sitting down to his guitar. I now lower my 2nd string a whole tone on RKR, along with my 6th string whole tone lower. I lower 2&9 a half tone on LKR. Whole tones on one knee and !/2 tones on another. I love it.

Mark Nix · Post by **Mark Nix** » 13 Oct 2014 7:23 pm

I doubt i would make a switch like that, but where are your E>Eb(D#) and E>F levers with the two split as such. I have both of those on LKR and lkl, respectively.

Howard Steinberg · Post by **Howard Steinberg** » 14 Oct 2014 2:54 am

When I acquired my current D-10, last winter the RKR was set up to lower the second string 1/2 step. I have to say that it was really nice to not have to deal with the feel stop and get the 7th chord in tune. In the end I set it up for the full step lower with the feel stop. I find myself less likely to use the half stop for a 7th chord unless I can hear really well and "am on." I've been thinking of adding a lever to just do the half step.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 14 Oct 2014 3:52 am

Tim, if you borrowed from Terry AND you lower a whole step, what use do you have for the C? He tunes to D, raises to D# and lowers a half step.

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 14 Oct 2014 8:48 am

I find that a feel stop that is based strictly on timing the pulls like Marks guitar seems to be doing is the very best feeling half stop. It takes hardly any pressure to get to the D and with the half stop either removed or moved back out of action the feel can be adjusted with the lower return spring for a solid feel stop without a lot of additional pressure needed to move on to the C#. I like a feel stop very much if the move to D is very soft and on to C# is noticeable but not hard. Otherwise, if I had the levers available I would like separate levers for the D and the C#.
Jerry

Larry Hamilton · Post by **Larry Hamilton** » 16 Oct 2014 7:52 pm

Lane, one knee lowers D toC# , one knee raises D to D#. Where you put the knees is kinda up to you. I have Terry's copedent around here somewhere on the computer.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 16 Oct 2014 9:54 pm

I'm another one that split the second string lowers onto two levers. Hated that half stop, even with Carter's dedicated "11 th finger" to tune the half stop. That lever also had the 3rd string lower on my C neck. Had to guess which tension increase point was the D. I put the C# on my second LKL and left the D on my RKL. I am much happier now.