musicians should respect one another

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 2 Sep 2014 1:18 pm

I'll try to explain why I said what I said.
The licks Jerry played ARE those of someone who has just started playing. They're the simple licks early on in either self-teaching or in some instructional materials. Almost as soon as I had the hang of moving the bar and adding a pedal at the same time, THOSE were the sorts of licks I had. BUT I didn't throw them together like that.
I liken it to Jeff Cook's fiddling in "Mountain Music."
While tasteful and effective, they're great uses for first-grader licks. And Jerry got more subtle and nuanced later.

kevin ryan · Post by **kevin ryan** » 4 Sep 2014 12:26 pm

I'm all about what Deshawn started here.. I recently was part of a big time production of country rock of the 60's.. A serious deal.. It was mandatory that we play the solos note for note. I had a hell of a time getting Jerry's parts on teach your children Exactly. Although some out of tuneless was part of that, it was an amazing exercise to get that.. Jerry was a musical cat and was part of a musical cultural phenomenon that touched millions... He may have only been dabbling with the steel for a couple of years but that part sold a lot of records and it ain't easy to play perfectly.. Pull the record out and try to nail it....

This is what I love hearing on the steel....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZzr28m2OdI

Godfrey Arthur · Post by **Godfrey Arthur** » 6 Sep 2014 4:36 am

kevin ryan wrote:

Although some out of tuneless was part of that, it was an amazing exercise to get that.. Jerry was a musical cat and was part of a musical cultural phenomenon that touched millions...

Music is a form of expression. An expression that has many levels of vibration.

It's all in the beholder.

Godfrey Arthur · Post by **Godfrey Arthur** » 6 Sep 2014 5:09 am

Lane Gray wrote:
Abe Spear, I expect he'll disappear without a trace.

Meanwhile Dyncorp and Haliburton get a slap on the wrist.

Guess we have to filter musical abilities from errant behavior and deal with just the one so as not to be OT, inadmissible in a court of law.

Are there psg players who are in the RTF vein?

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 6 Sep 2014 5:13 am

Godfrey Arthur wrote:who are in the RTF vein?

What is the RTF vein?

Godfrey Arthur · Post by **Godfrey Arthur** » 6 Sep 2014 5:22 am

Mike Perlowin wrote:
Godfrey Arthur wrote:who are in the RTF vein?
What is the RTF vein?

Sorry Mike for the ABC's.

Return To Forever, Chick Corea.

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 6 Sep 2014 5:58 am

Now yer talkin Godfrey. Saw 'em in about 1975 with stanley. Al is my like third cousin twice removed! Never met him though.

Godfrey Arthur · Post by **Godfrey Arthur** » 6 Sep 2014 7:15 am

Bud Angelotti wrote:Now yer talkin Godfrey. Saw 'em in about 1975 with stanley. Al is my like third cousin twice removed! Never met him though.

Bud you could touch base with your cousin, paisan. Al as well as Stanley have been back with the group after the 70's several years ago in fact, the Reunion tour of '08. I saw Chick do a duet concert with Herbie around the same time you saw him, different setup. Still Corea.

The closest I can claim to being "related" to someone like Al is my grandmother sitting next to Anthony Benedetto's mom at the sewing factory they both worked at in NY. Vicarious osmosis without the associated evil and loads of plausible deniability.

I like Al's work. The guy can melodic rock, literally. In a G3 setting Al plays outside the box. Sans circular noodling.

I still wonder if someone is doing j-fusion on a psg, though. That would be interesting.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 6 Sep 2014 8:54 am

Paul Fanklin made a fusion album called "Play by play." I have it on vinyl. I don't think it was ever re-issued on CD.

Godfrey Arthur · Post by **Godfrey Arthur** » 6 Sep 2014 9:17 am

Mike Perlowin wrote:Paul Fanklin made a fusion album called "Play by play." I have it on vinyl. I don't think it was ever re-issued on CD.

Any clips leaked on youtube Mike?

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 6 Sep 2014 2:55 pm

I don't think so.

I wish he'd reissue the album asa CD.

Asa Brosius · Post by **Asa Brosius** » 7 Sep 2014 5:39 am

since you mentioned my name just above Mike, I feel obliged to comment (joke!.)every once in awhile someone posts RR playing some country licks, mentions S. Alcorn's ability to swing, or points out that perhaps J Garcia might not have reached the pinnacle of expression and execution with the psg. while some of the instrument's cliches are nearly unavoidable (how long did you have a lap steel before you tried to play Sleepwalk?), this judgement of a player based on what sound we want their instrument to make strikes me as a little insane. if I want driving, uplifting blues, I don't turn to Lloyd Green or Jerry Byrd, who are heroes to me- this is not particularly what they do.
finally, and i don't expect this to be popular here amongst members or moderators, but i think its worth noting the race, sex, and whatever visible differentiating lifestyle category J. Garcia fits into, of the three occasionally maligned and well known players mentioned above.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 7 Sep 2014 6:58 am

Asa, you (and others) TOTALLY got what I was saying backwards.

perhaps J Garcia might not have reached the pinnacle of expression and execution with the psg.

That's EXACTLY backwards of what I tried to express.
In Teach (and Candy Man on American Beauty), Jerry got more expression and execution out of his steel than many of us do.
I'll stand by my claim that the licks used were quite simple/rudimentary.
But he deployed those rudimentary licks to excellent effect. Nothing wrong with that. In fact it's better than amassing a huge stock of virtuosic licks and never learning how to use them l to express ideas or emotions.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 7 Sep 2014 7:48 am

All licks are rudimentary when you break them down.

Asa Brosius · Post by **Asa Brosius** » 7 Sep 2014 7:53 am

Lane, I never suggested you said that. I understand the point you made (and incidentally, I agree). I included Garcia in a small group of known PSG players who seem to draw ire on this forum fairly regularly.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 7 Sep 2014 8:25 am

b0b wrote:All licks are rudimentary when you break them down.

Fine. YOU break down Paul's rides on "I Don't Even Know Your Name"

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 7 Sep 2014 8:55 am

Was the subject respect? It's ......
JJ

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 7 Sep 2014 10:03 am

I don't get no respect!!

Ned McIntosh · Post by **Ned McIntosh** » 7 Sep 2014 10:44 pm

What we play is just a guitar...albeit rather a strange one to the uninitiated.

How we play this contraption is where disputation seems to be setting in. The combination of instrument and player is the vehicle for musical creation and interpretation. That's all it is.

There's a player, and a bunch of listeners. The player plays what and how he wants to play according to what he feels, what he hears and his abilities at the time. The listeners mostly have the luxury of leaving, or turning the music off, if they don't like it.

There are any number of musical genres I don't particularly care for, but I readily acknowledge the skill and musicianship of those who are regarded as setting the standards in those genres.

We must not restrict pedal-steel guitar to a few musical genres because that way lies stagnation, atrophy and eventual extinction. It is easy to close your mind and your ears to that which is not pleasing - but sometimes it is useful to be taken from your comfort-zone.

The guys and gals who are exploring new avenues for our chosen instrument may find some are dead-ends, but others may prove to be an incredibly rich vein, yielding rewards and a musical legacy we cannot even imagine. Only the passage of time will show what was the future for our instrument.

We deservedly lionise those who gave the pedal-steel its design, its voice and its trademark sounds. They have become the "Immortals", and we owe them a debt of gratitude. But even they would have realised there was much more under the skin of this instrument than they had uncovered.

Above all, when posting we should not descend into arguments about individuals' perceived abilities - or otherwise. When players like Paul Franklin and Steve Fishell express support for the broad concept, those of us who are thinking will consider very carefully what we write before we sit down at our keyboards and venture forth. I know I did.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 7 Sep 2014 10:48 pm

Thank you Ned.

Dustin Rhodes · Post by **Dustin Rhodes** » 8 Sep 2014 4:52 am

I've seen this type of thread play out many times on other forums and most responses read something like "I agree but......." then they go on and on justifying not respecting people they don't like.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 8 Sep 2014 5:39 am

Hell, if the "lions" of the instrument can look to people playing other instruments for inspiration (try talking to Emmons about the B3 cats) and new things to play, I see no reason to pour scorn on people who are doing different things on their own

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 8 Sep 2014 7:37 am

Lane Gray wrote:Hell, if the "lions" of the instrument can look to people playing other instruments for inspiration (try talking to Emmons about the B3 cats) and new things to play, I see no reason to pour scorn on people who are doing different things on their own

It's a zero-sum game played by those that point the finger of scorn. It goes something like this:

For the steel guitar music I like to be good, the other music must be bad, because my opinions are absolute. And I don't care who's playing it, it's not good.

I think people get their egos so personally identified with their musical loves and hates that they lose sight of what's actually real and important in life. Witness the recent kerfluffle over a particular hero's jazz and banjo rolls that culminated in a very public and disingenuous request for membership revocation.

I know of very few professional musicians that don't hold the masters of other styles and instruments in the highest regard, consider those musics valid even if not to personal taste, and are very critical of their own personal playing while being generous with the playing of their colleagues.

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 8 Sep 2014 7:45 am

I know of very few professional musicians that don't hold the masters of other styles and instruments in the highest regard, consider those musics valid even if not to personal taste, and are very critical of their own personal playing while being generous with the playing of their colleagues

.

Right on, Herb. Many forumites post and discuss their admiration and desire for emulation of the giants of steel. I have known very few pro players who didn't feel exactly as you've so succinctly stated.

Dashawn Hickman · Post by **Dashawn Hickman** » 8 Sep 2014 1:05 pm

When I wrote this post it was to bring out the point of steel players having a level of respect towards one another. Not to open the book to allow someone's personal life to be exposed and judgment placed on them. This community is a small community and we should take pride knowing that there r people who want to keep the instrument growing. Your Color or the Music u choose to play has no place in how the instrument is evolving. If each steel player on this forum took the time to go to another steel player and say" hey man I like what u doing but have u ever thought about trying it this way" God in heaven knows this instrument would go far beyond what any of us could ever imagine. It's called lending a helping hand. I was never a bluegrass fan until I took the time to understand the music and now I love it. I get questioned all the time about being African American and playing Steel Guitar and Banjo. And my response is neither one of my instruments know that im a black guy. Its important that we all realize that when we pass judgment u do nothing but hurt the person u judge. Theres only one person that has that power and thats God. Guys lets help each other instead of hurting one another.