Tuning wrench's not fitting my Nylon tuning nuts

Jeff Metz Jr. · Post by **Jeff Metz Jr.** » 28 Aug 2014 10:25 pm

I have tried 4 tuners on the market now I have to physically Muscle the wrenches onto my nylons.
The guitar is a 2013 Mullen Royal precision stock from the factory.
I've tried the George L's, Show Pro, Tsgn, and The BIG wrench so far.
THANKS A BUNCH!

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 29 Aug 2014 12:51 am

That sounds odd.
Are the nuts mushroomed?
Is it all of the nuts or just some of them?

James Jacoby · Post by **James Jacoby** » 29 Aug 2014 1:03 am

I've got all Carter PSGs, and I have a few of the nylon tuners that are like you describe. All the others work fine, but those particular ones, are so tight, that you can almost pull the guitar along, by the wrench, when you take them off! Made me wonder if the tight ones were, perhaps, sized metric??? Are ALL your nylon tuners, tight like that? I plan on replacing my tight ones with new. Have you tried putting a small socket on them, to see what size they are? On one of my steels, I'm using a 3/16" nut driver. (the kind that resembles a screwdriver with a plastic handle),and it works fine. Perhaps you can find one that will fit your tuners. I, personally don't like having to push that hard on those nylons for fear of damaging something! -Jake-

David Nugent · Post by **David Nugent** » 29 Aug 2014 3:59 am

Mullen used to supply a tuning wrench that fit the tuning nuts perfectly with all new guitars, was actually a small nut driver with a black handle. Still have and regularly use my original that came with my '92 pre 'RP'.

jay thompson · Post by **jay thompson** » 29 Aug 2014 4:15 am

This will occur when the hole is too small for the diameter of the threads on the pull rod. The nylon nut will swell if they are. Are the nuts the original that came with the guitar?
Regards, Jay Thompson

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 29 Aug 2014 4:54 am

Which gives me an idea. If they've swelled beyond 3/16", try a 5 mm socket or nut driver. That should be just a titch larger than 3/16.
That sounds far easier than trying to make them all conform.

Ronnie Boettcher · Post by **Ronnie Boettcher** » 29 Aug 2014 5:34 am

Lane is absolutely correct!!! Why get your shorts in a uproar. Just go to any hardware store, harbor freight, home depot, lowes, menards,and get two cheap sets of nut drivers. One SAE, and one METRIC. One of them will do the job. This is not rocket science. Mechanics 101

Jason Putnam · Post by **Jason Putnam** » 29 Aug 2014 5:39 am

The Zum Stage one is the same way. It comes with a nut driver to tune because I think it has to have a 5mm. Regular tuners everybody sells won't work on them.

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 29 Aug 2014 5:54 am

My 1998 Carter uses 'standard' nuts and works with a 'standard' GeorgeL type tuning wrench. My Fessenden uses metric nuts for which Jerry provides the proper wrench. It is either a 5mm driver or it is a slightly enlarged standard one.

Ronnie Boettcher wrote:Why get your shorts in a uproar.

Perhaps you have a different understanding of what this means than I do. The only hysteria I see in this thread is this quote.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 29 Aug 2014 6:35 am

Jon, I think the "shorts in an uproar" came in response to perceptions of frustration on Jeff's part, as evidenced by trying so many different 3/16" wrenches. Understandable frustration.
3/16" is 4.76mm, so 5 is just a smidge bigger. But should be bigger enough.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 29 Aug 2014 8:16 am

I use this style of Drive Deep Sockets to make my own tuners.
Bring a nylon tuner to the hardware store to get the right size.
I wrap a strip of non-skid tape around the thick end of the socket to increase turning/tuning grip (the non-skid tape used for stairs).
One trip to Ace Hardware.

Dylan Keating · Post by **Dylan Keating** » 29 Aug 2014 9:44 am

The same thing happened with my Linkon pedal steel- I had to jam the 3/16" driver onto the hex nuts. Not ideal. I bought a cheap metric nut driver set from Princess Auto and the 5mm driver works like a charm.

Steve English · Post by **Steve English** » 29 Aug 2014 10:39 am

The Zum Stage one is the same way. It comes with a nut driver to tune because I think it has to have a 5mm. Regular tuners everybody sells won't work on them.

I've been using regular (George L) tuners on mine for the last three years with no issues.

Jeff Metz Jr. · Post by **Jeff Metz Jr.** » 29 Aug 2014 11:35 am

Thanks all! Yes the nylons are all the same size and none are mushroomed. This is a brand new guitar.
Yeah I have been using a nut driver instead of wrenches. Its just that I just purchased a not so cheap tuning wrench that I was SUPER excited to use. It was supposed to fit and It doesn't . I am sure the nylons are original. A 3/16" Socket fits perfectly but the 3/16" Wrench I bought Doesn't??? Quite strange.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 29 Aug 2014 1:37 pm

If you can get a 3/16th metal allen wrench (ball end) into the 3/16 tuning-tool that is too tight, maybe you could loosen it up enough to use on your nylons (maybe just the opening at the end needs to be reemed a bit).

Les Cargill · Post by **Les Cargill** » 29 Aug 2014 2:18 pm

I have had a few nylons mushroom a bit - take 'em off the guitar, put 'em in a vise ( gently ) and use the tuning knob to abrade the excess off. If that doesn't work, file 'em a bit. The ones on an MSA are symmetric, so you can always just spin 'em around and use the other end. Don't think this would work on Carters or guitars with those long nylon tuners.

Bobby D. Jones · Post by **Bobby D. Jones** » 29 Aug 2014 2:25 pm

I have dealt with 3 different size holes in the nylon (Plastic) tuning nuts. Sounds like someone may have put one size smaller on the rods and swelled the nuts out forcefully till the wrench won't fit. The simplest would find a cheap MM deep well socket that fits and modify it. I made this one specifically for a grumpy hard to turn nut. Cheap so it will save you money and also you can drill it. Here is what I came up with.

Carl Williams · Post by **Carl Williams** » 29 Aug 2014 3:46 pm

Hi Jeff,
Very sorry to hear the BIG Tuning wrench also didn't work for you..I've sent you a Private Message about returning the wrench for a refund. Hope you can find either a decent wrench or perhaps get new tuning nuts if necessary. Carl

Michael Yahl · Post by **Michael Yahl** » 30 Aug 2014 6:23 am

This is an issue that Bobby Bowman brought to my attention. It is most common on any of the guitars that use the shorter tuning nuts, usually 5/8" and shorter. MSA uses a 3/8" long nut and as stated above, as they are threaded onto the rod end, it causes the softer nylon to be displaced causing the outside of the nut to "swell" by a slight amount. The longer tuning nuts do the same thing throughout the area that is in contact with the rod but due to the longer length, the area where the wrench will fit is unaffected. Therefore, on the longer nuts, the 3/16" sockets will fit fine, but on the shorter nuts, the 5mm sockets are a better choice. This is why I began making the 5mm sockets.

The size of a 5mm is .1968" which is .010" larger than 3/16"(.1875'). That extra clearance allows for the swelling of the shorter nuts. My hex broaches are sized to cut about .003" larger than stated size to allow the hex to easily go over the stated size hex component. Commercial sockets are manufactured to even looser tolerances to allow for burred or slightly rounded edges on the head of a bolt.

The other factor is that some of the guitar manufacturers actually use a 5mm hex nut but, to my knowledge, I believe that they are all long enough that the swelling isn't an issue at the wrench end.

Michael

John Scanlon · Post by **John Scanlon** » 30 Aug 2014 3:22 pm

For a while, I was without a true tuning wrench, so I used a small socket (prob 3/16") and a socket adapter (Ike the one on the right in this pic) together. Made for a great substitute, and you could have different and interchangeable sockets (like 5mm) for different sized or swollen hex nuts.

Ken Pippus · Post by **Ken Pippus** » 30 Aug 2014 4:19 pm

When I bought my (first) Big Tuning Wrench from Carl, he warned me it probably wouldn't fit on my Mullen RP, but it seems to work fine on mine.

Carl Williams · Post by **Carl Williams** » 30 Aug 2014 5:08 pm

Thanks Ken...I'm buying the BIG Tuning wrench back...As my ad states, "if you buy a wrench and it doesn't work for you, I'll buy it back." Hope all is well with you these days. Carl
p.s. I believe Michael Yahl can solve the sizing problem with his very fine wrenches...I got his first BIG Tuning wrench he made in 2012...it's a keeper!

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