Pine lap steel? Way to strengthen wood?

[Daniel Fairman]

Someone is selling a very nice pine lap steel online. I like it but it is probably too soft of a wood. It is unfinished but that may be good because I was wondering if there was someway I could treat the wood to make it stronger/or add a solid coating on it to make it a little less fragile? Any ideas?

[Brad Bechtel]

Do you have a link to the lap steel in question? I suppose you could apply a pearloid plastic finish somehow.

[Alan Brookes]

I've built plenty of lap steels in pine and never had any problem with strength. It's not like a regular guitar where you have to worry about the action: you're going to be playing it with a tone bar.

[Andy Volk]

Has anyone built a lap steel using thin, laminated pine layers? Charles and Ray Eames' chairs and Howard Hughs' Spruce Goose both successfully exploited that building technique.

[George Piburn]

Alan is correct , Don't worry about Deflection.

You are just starting out on your build projects , so pine is a good wood , easy to work with and to paint.

Later when you get more experienced you can graduate to nicer woods or to a Pre Made Steel Guitar Body Blanks and so on.

About hand made nuts and bridges -- Aluminum -- make sure it is 6061 T6 alloy the Home center type is too soft and sounds less good.

Brass go with 360 or 385 alloy these are machinable and hand work able with files , and simple drills.

Alan has used All Thread from the Home Center with great results.

When you are ready to get into Scale Length's - nut and bridge placement come back to the forum for more advise for our Brain Trust we are all willing to help Builder DIY Projects.

[Daniel Fairman]

Thanks for the input!
Where could I get that pearloid plastic finish Brad? That is a good idea!

[Alan Brookes]

Take good notice of what George says. He's not known as Mr. Boards for nothing. He's been a professional luthier (string instrument builder) for many years and during that time has built some of the most attractive and finest-sounding steel guitars on the market.

His work is much sought-after.

[Daniel Fairman]

Thanks for the advice and insight. Here is the link for the steel i am buying it is the one at the bottom that says sold:
http://steelguitarlessons.webs.com/classifieds

[Daniel Fairman]

Before I put the finish on the lap steel. After removing all of the hardware, how do I keep the holes from getting clogged up with finish? Thanks!

[Alan Brookes]

It depends on how you're going to finish the instrument. If you're going to apply varnish or shellac with a brush you just make sure you avoid running the liquid into the holes. If you're going to be spraying varnish, undercoat or paint, not much will get down the holes unless you direct the jet straight at them. In the final stages, if some finish has gotten into the holes, just run the drill through them again. I've never had any problem with it. By the way, if you're going to be putting bushings into the holes, ream the holes out to take the bushings but don't push them in until the finish is dry.

What you use for a finish will affect the tone, by the way. You're probably intending to fit magnetic pickups and think that the dimensions or finish of the instrument don't affect the sound, but they do.

I also recommend that the only wiring on the instrument be from the pickups to the plug, and from the metal bridge to the negative lead on the plug (to ground the strings and avoid hum.) Volume and tone controls, or other effects units, are best used outside the instrument, unless you want to do some of that "talking steel" that Alvino Rey used to do with the volume knob by the bridge, which is extremely unlikely, and can be done with a foot pedal.

I should mention that I've built twin-necked console steels with six octave courses out of pine, with no problems, and they had 24 strings...

[Tom Pettingill]

Unless you are planning on using some sort of thick catalyzed industrial heavy duty 2 part plastic dipped finish, then no need to worry about plugging the holes.

[George Piburn]

I need to make a slight correction to Alan - I am not a trained Luthier I live in Luther Oklahoma and I am a Luther-er!

About your project , You can toothpick some Vaseline or candle wax into the screw holes to prevent the finish from getting in too deep, then simply spray away.

On some thing like this you can use Ari sol cans of Rustoleum from Home Depot, for the color, then use Rustoleum Lacquer for the clear coats. It will work great and make sure to take at least 24 hours before doing the next coat, keeping them thin is going to make it not run. If you load it up too wet , you will be getting out the sand paper.

Rustoleum also makes a FILLER Primer same sales area as the colors. That sutff is awesome for making your wood grain disappear , same deal several coats with 24 hours minimum dry time between. Then sand it lightly with 320, and presto , a super smooth surface.

About the Mother of Toilet seat acrylic over coat. With no previous experience , you will be opening a huge can of worms. It is toxic to the max , and is bent with acetone and heat , a good situation for FIRE and Explosion in a non professional work area.

[Daniel Fairman]

Thanks for all of the info, I am going to sell my morrell and buy the one that I mentioned. It'll be fun to finish it on my own. Thanks everyone for all of the great ideas!

[Daniel Fairman]

Thanks for all of the info, I am going to sell my morrell and buy the one that I mentioned. It'll be fun to finish it on my own. Thanks everyone for all of the great ideas!

[Jim Williams]

That's a nice looking little console. Have fun.

[Keith Glendinning]

Hi,
I have made a couple of Pine Lap Steels from used scaffold boards!
Pine is a much used wood for acoustic guitar tops, so it must be a good for transmitting sound waves. As it is a fairly "soft" tonewood, it is easily worked and has the added advantage that it is easy to shape and finish. My first effort was a body shape copied from a tenor Ukulele with a Strat copy neck. It had a "Hot" Tele pickup and hardware and sound pretty good.
My latest project (see picture) is also made from the same scaffold board and owes its design to early Gretsch Lap Steels. I've modified the shape slightly so as not to be too slavish to the original design and I am using Fender "P" type pickups on it. The pickguard is also a modified "P" type design, radically chopped to fit the body shape.
As long as the pine has been dried adequately before it's shaped, it does not require any special treatment, it's a strong wood, scaffolders stand on it!
My first effort was finished with a car aerosol spray and the back and sides of the the new one are to be finished with a lightly tinted varnish. I haven't yet decided on the top, but it may be black, or a darker tinted varnish. Pine has quite a nice open, wide grain, which is quite decorative to look at.
The guitar will be an 8 string, my first, and probable tuning will be C6 or A6. The picture is a "fit up" to see how the "Bruce Wei" fingerboard and modified pickguard looked.
So far I'm happy with they way it's turned out.
Regards,
Keith Glendinning.
ps If you want a decorative fingerboard for a project, check out Bruce Wei on eBay. Price-wise he's hard to beat and his products are fabulous. He'll also make one to your personal design for a few bucks extra.

[Ron Bednar]

Daniel,
The price is right so why even mess with the guitar?
That is a lot of unnecessary work.
The truth is unless you entirely rebuild the guitar, adding a sound plate of some sort and a better pickup you are not going to make any difference in it's sound.
I'd say leave it as is and enjoy it for what it is.
Later put your time and money into either building your own or refurbishing a fixer classic you might find.

Cheers,
Ron

[Keith Glendinning]

Hi,
I have just completed my 8 String Pine guitar. The body shape was based on a Gretsch, with a few deviations. I cut it from a Pine scaffold board using only hand tools. Namely a 1968 B&D hand drill (with a dodgy bearing), a half round file, a couple of handsaws and lots of sandpaper. The tuners are a set of 8 string classical tuners from China and the pickups, "P" type bass, are also from China. I'm a pensioner and cannot justify too much expense on my hobby, so most of my hardware is purchased on eBay. The pickguard is a "P" type model, chopped down to suit the body shape. I decided on this option to make sure if fit the pickups, as I couldn't be sure my skills could do that.
The wood was sanded to a very smooth finish then coated with Valspar sealer. I then gave it 4 coats of Valspar Denim Blue spray paint, followed by 4 coats of Valspar Gold Fleck spray. Finally I finished it with 4 coats of Valspar sealer. In between coats I sanded with 500 grade sandpaper and wiped down with White Spirit.
The Nut, Bridge and Tailpiece are made from 15mm aluminium angle. A tip here for builders, buy some welders tip cleaners from eBay. They are perfect for cutting the grooves in the nut and bridge. The sizes are compatible with all string gauges, and they're cheap.
Once assembled I had problems tuning using a set of La Bella C6th strings, but I think this was down to the tightness of the tuners due to my drilling of the head, in fact I snapped the top string (G) and fitted another spare, which I again snapped! I'm now going to de-tune to A6th to avoid more string breakages.
The sound from the "P" bass pickups through my Roland Cube 20w is full, even though they were cheap. I also ran it through my Fender Princeton 112, but found it a bit too bright. Maybe I need to tweak it a bit. I didn't notice any lack of sustain and this is the second guitar from the same piece of pine, both worked out well.
Once I get a full compliment if strings fitted and settled in, I'll try to post a sound clip of my very limited playing.
Regards to all.
Keith

[Alan Brookes]

...The Nut, Bridge and Tailpiece are made from 15mm aluminium angle...I snapped the top string (G) and fitted another spare, which I again snapped! I'm now going to de-tune to A6th to avoid more string breakages...

Keith, using any metal angle for the bridge can easily cause string breakages. The strings pass at a tight angle over the bridge, and should be allowed to slide as the strings are tightened. For this reason I always build rounded bridges, as there's no tendendy for any sharp edges on the bridge to file away at the strings until they break.
The same thing applies to the nut. Do you notice how all pedal steels have roller nuts? Any restriction in the movement of the strings over the nut cause an inequality in tension between both sides of the nut. That can cause the instrument to go out of tune as the string equalizes the tension along its length AFTER you've tuned it, and, also string breakage as I've mentioned.
I should mention that many jazz guitarists with archtop guitars with floating bridges replace the bridges with roller bridges which usually improves the tone.
Just a suggestion.

...Alan has used All Thread from the Home Center with great results...

If you use threaded rod for the bridge and nut the strings pass over it without any tendendy to break, and you can change the inter-string spacing any time you want by just slackening off the strings and lifting them to a different position.

[Keith Glendinning]

Hi Alan,
Thanks for your comments, which I fully agree with. As it happens, I just used the materials at hand, but I probably will change both in the near future.
I have roller bridges on both my Strat and my Tele, but haven't got around to roller nuts yet.
Regards,
Keith.
ps. Here's the first guitar from the "scaffold board". The body was a copy from a Lag tenor Uke that I own.