tuning the PSG to E9thb or D9th#

Scott Rexroad · Post by **Scott Rexroad** » 18 Mar 2014 5:53 am

I am contemplating joining a band that all players tune their instruments down a half step, e.g. in the case of the lead guitar open tuning is D# G# C# F# A# and D# and then bass and rhythm respectively. They say it helps not to strain the lead singers voice. This is the first time in 50 years I have ran into this situation.

I have the choice of staying with standard E9th tuning and transpose everything we do to sharps and flats or tune down to D#9th and then I can play all tunes on the PSG without playing in the sharp or flat positions on the neck. But if I do tune my PSG to D#9th,(lack of the right term) would there be a tone loss etc.. I'm sure as the bar is on the strings it might be a little bouncier IDK.

Has anyone else come across this situation.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 18 Mar 2014 6:12 am

I prefer to tune down.
I use a .012 for the high G#.
If you wanted you could bump up all the unwound strings a guage to compensate for tension.
The wounds seem to be OK in my expierience (but you could bump them up a notch thicker of you wanted).

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 18 Mar 2014 6:44 am

Only my opinion, but I see nothing but problems associated with this situation.
Run, Forrest, runâ€¦!

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 18 Mar 2014 6:52 am

Barry it would be more helpful if you could tell us about the problems that you personnally expierenced when you tuned down a half step and played gigs that way.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 18 Mar 2014 7:10 am

Maybe I've been lucky, but in 40+ years of playing I have only encountered one six-string guitar player that ever did this - why do you suppose that is?
I personally wouldn't do it, but what about having to retune to standard to play with anybody else or for sessions, or would you leave it detuned and play out of position? Readjusting the pedals because of detuning, pedal travel, string tension, etc. I could go on I suppose, but isn't it kind of obvious?

Pete Finney · Post by **Pete Finney** » 18 Mar 2014 7:14 am

Tom Brumley seemed to do okay with it for all those years.

But what did he know...

Scott Rexroad · Post by **Scott Rexroad** » 18 Mar 2014 7:20 am

Yes Barry, this a dilemma. I am at the point of run Forest run.

Pete yes it makes perfect sense to do the things you said to do. But I also play with other bands and would have to tune back to E9th and change strings back to the correct gauges.

Pete I am curious why you tune down, not that I thinks its wrong or nothing but maybe I can learn something from you.

My problem is that I am 57 years old and my brain has locked out playing every song in all sharps and flats.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 18 Mar 2014 7:22 am

Tom Brumley seemed to do okay with it for all those years.

But what did he know...

Quite obviously, Tom was a notable exception to the rule. Please note I stated it was "only my opinion" - no need for sarcasm here.

Scott Rexroad · Post by **Scott Rexroad** » 18 Mar 2014 7:27 am

Barry that's the kind of things I was concerned about was all the changing back and forth from E9th to D#9th and then back again. If these are the things I have to deal with, readjusting the pedals because of detuning, pedal travel, string tension, etc. then its not going to be in my best interest at all to detune

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 18 Mar 2014 7:49 am

I also play with some bands that tune down a half step.
I prefer to play in my normal positions, so I tune down a half step also.
It doesn't take that long to re-tune the entire steel.
This is really the only way you will know for yourself if it works or not.

Barry with all due respect you opened the door for sarcasm with your Forest Gump remark.

Scott Rexroad · Post by **Scott Rexroad** » 18 Mar 2014 8:06 am

The perfect world would be to have 2 PSG's, 1 tuned standard and 1 tuned down to D#9th and that's not a option.

I thank you guys for this info. It saved me a lot of time trying to do this detuning thing blind. I think my decision is very clear.

Pete, I'm going to take your advise and just try detuning and see what I end up with. Will let ya know later today how it turned out. Thanks

Pete Finney · Post by **Pete Finney** » 18 Mar 2014 8:14 am

I think you'll also find that if you give it a little practice time, playing in what may seem to be unusual keys will start to seem pretty natural. As long as you're trying new things, maybe you shouldn't rule that out; it may be easier than you think.

Might be easier than retuning back-and-forth for different gigs, which is a whole different story than just working with one band and keeping your tuning a half-step down.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 18 Mar 2014 8:25 am

Barry with all due respect you opened the door for sarcasm with your Forest Gump remark.

Really, Pete. I thought I was being clever by paraphrasing the Forest Gump remark as a way of saying don't get involved with that situation. Sarcasm was not my intention. Sorry.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 18 Mar 2014 9:39 am

I have a friend that tuned to D#9th instead of E9th. It was because of his teacher, back in the 60's, who tuned to D#9th, a carry over from the old days when there were no roller nuts (what I've been told). My friend now tunes to standard E9th but his teacher still tunes to D#9th.

I also read (don't remember where) that Buck Owens tuned down and may be why Tom Brumley tuned down??

Unless you need to play open at D#9th there is no reason to change the tuning. If you listen to Jeff Newman you don't play open....

Ron Scott · Post by **Ron Scott** » 18 Mar 2014 9:43 am

I prefer to stay with the E9th and play out of sharps and flats. You run into this all the time with singers so it becomes natural over time. Tom had his reasons for tuning down and who can complain about how great he sounded. Sure Miss him and such a great person...RS

Scott Rexroad · Post by **Scott Rexroad** » 18 Mar 2014 10:58 am

I went and tried the down tuning and was amazed at what I found. Had to tweak a few strings with the wrench but all and all it was ok. Then tuned back to E9th and had to again tweak them strings back again. And then tuned back down to D#9th and again had to tweak a few strings. Well geez mystery solved for me then. So just tweaking a few strings will be ok.

In my studio all seems good with the down tuning, might be a different story at rehearsal and on the job. I still wander about the tone.

Thanks all for chiming in on this...

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 18 Mar 2014 3:35 pm

That's what I've found, too. There isn't much difference when you tune down, and the tone is usually better! I know what Jeff Newman said about using open strings, but he used open strings, too (just not as much as Doug Jernigan).

In the end, it's almost always better to "go with the flow", rather than to swim (alone) and upstream.

W. Van Horn · Post by **W. Van Horn** » 18 Mar 2014 8:09 pm

When I'm not on the road I play with a TX country singer who's band tunes down a half step. I don't have a problem just playing in whatever keys they are in - except that you can't take their word for what key it actually is. When they say C they could mean B, C, or Db...it's an adventure.

Patrick Lyons · Post by **Patrick Lyons** » 19 Mar 2014 2:37 pm

I play in a few different groups and one of them tunes down a half step. I kept the steel in standard and just kept an eye on the keyboard players hands, until I realized he modulated his board down a half step too. Going back and forth will probably make you more susceptible to breaking strings as well. It got easier after the first couple gigs, but like stated previously, make sure you know the key because there was some discrepancies at first ie if the the song was in Eb on the record that doesn't necessarily mean that the band will play it in D.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 19 Mar 2014 4:36 pm

Go listen to some POCO records.. ALWAYS tuned down, album after album.. and Rusty used old ZB steels and later on Sho Buds, with no problems.. After a few turns of the endplate tuners, the steel will never know the difference, you will never break a string, and your pedal and levers will play soften than ever before... I would run as well.. Right at the guy with the money in his hand, after the gigs! bob

admin · Post by **b0b** » 19 Mar 2014 5:28 pm

There's no such key as D#. It's Eb, 3 flats.

I have a friend whose guitar has string breakage problems (25" scale), so he tunes to Eb9.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 19 Mar 2014 5:50 pm

1. D-sharp major key signature

This step shows the D# major scale key signature on the treble clef and bass clef.
D-sharp major scale has 5 sharps, 2 double-sharps
No. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Note D# E# F## G# A# B# C## D#

Warning: The D-sharp key is a theoretical major scale key.

This means:

> Its key signature would contain either double-sharps or double flats.

> It is rarely used in practice, because it is too complex to use.

> It is not on the Circle of fifths diagram, which contains the most commonly used keys.

> There is always an identical major scale that you can use in its place, which is on the Circle of 5ths.

> The Eb major scale sounds the same / contains the same note pitches, which are played in the same order (the scales are enharmonic), so it can be used as a direct replacement for the D-sharp major scale.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 19 Mar 2014 10:31 pm

Eb9 pedal steel tuning:
Bb Db Eb F G Bb Eb G D F

It's closely related to the Reece Anderson's Bb6 universal with RKL engaged.