hardwood for amp cabinet

Walter Killam · Post by **Walter Killam** » 4 Mar 2014 7:04 am

Speaking from my own experience, I have a Bugera V22 (nice little amp BTW), and the original cabinet is hardly better than cardboard, it's a fiber board of some sort. I pulled the chassis & speaker & installed them in a Peavey Bandit Cab, and the sonic difference was astounding. The sound in the new cabinet is much crisper, and the lows aren't flabby anymore.

As others have said, using a hardwood would likely make a difference, but it would be difficult to quantify, and then there's the subjective quality what constitutes "good" sound.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 4 Mar 2014 8:44 am

Well, to come at it backwards, I would say that if you have a speaker cabinet that is absorbing/muting/canceling a large enough part of the speaker's output to be noticeable, what you got right there is called a â€œbad cabinet."

Jerry Jones · Post by **Jerry Jones** » 4 Mar 2014 9:00 am

I think the Peavey Bandit uses a particle board cabinet, so in that case, I guess we should score one for "dogwood."

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 4 Mar 2014 12:01 pm

I saw Emmons roll his Session 400 onto the stage in Branson when he played with Price about 1981. It was in a road case with wheels. He lifted the top off of the road case and left the amp setting in the remaining road case with the bottom two inches of the speaker behind the upper lip of the road case. Awesome tone and volume without being mic'd or patched into the board. I rest his "case!"

Walter Killam · Post by **Walter Killam** » 4 Mar 2014 5:12 pm

Hey Jerry,

FWIW there have been a lot of Bandit models built, this particular cabinet is built well out of dense plywood.

As a former jeweler, I can attest to the density of dogwood, we used to use it for mallets & dapping blocks, and beat the heck out of that stuff! I imagine if you could put enough of it together to form the planks, a dogwood cabinet would be nearly indestructible.

Garry Pugh · Post by **Garry Pugh** » 4 Mar 2014 6:45 pm

"you are right, they can get banged up, but I have a day job and only pick for fun."

Well said Bill and my feelings as well. I am at a point in my life where I can afford some of the nice things I really longed for when I was dragging a Fender Twin up 20 flights of stairs to play for $30 per night.

Maybe it is not practical to buy a Milkman in a Walnut case if it doesn't make the gig as often as the Peavey or Roland but sometimes it is just nice to have something of quality, just because you can.

Jerry Jones · Post by **Jerry Jones** » 4 Mar 2014 7:59 pm

Walter Killam wrote:As a former jeweler, I can attest to the density of dogwood

I guess what I meant was "dog" wood, not Dogwood.

Walnut would sure look greatâ€¦. years ago I built some rack cabinets out of Walnut and I understand they are still seeing duty but now more as end tables.

Joe Naylor · Post by **Joe Naylor** » 4 Mar 2014 8:14 pm

Garry that is a good idea to get what you want. I cannot speak for asking for what YOU want - I have been in this dilemma also. On a totally different subject but related. I try my best to offer all the options I can on a steelseat. In the past year I had a musician ask for something that I thought was impossible within the time line he wanted. I would only assume what I would do - that case was that a customer wanted polished aluminum and mica - at that time I did not know about polishing since I am not equipped - since that time I have found a polisher that will do that for me - I simply could not have gotten it done in the time line the customer wanted - this is my example - Now I know that if I add 4 weeks to the delivery I could possible get it done but at a much higher cost.

Tim is like all of the vendors in the steel guitar family. We all try to supply what we can do to our the customer.

Just my take on the subject.

Joe Naylor
www.steelseat.com

Matt Butner · Post by **Matt Butner** » 4 Mar 2014 9:17 pm

Here is my experience with cabinet wood and tone. I had this amp for a couple of years before i decided to build a new cabinet for it. This was my first attempt at making a cab, made a few mistakes but i was happy with it. I used one piece of maple for the sides and the top and then a cool looking piece of maple for the back. I just couldn't throw it away haha so i used it. Now i expected to have a prettier amp but did not expect a sound change. The sound improved dramatically. I could not believe the clarity that it had. The bass became very prominent and i have had to turn it down because of this. Now it may be that the cab before was just a piece of junk but i really like the tone of this amp and will keep it probably forever. Hope this helps.

Steve Collins · Post by **Steve Collins** » 4 Mar 2014 10:25 pm

That is a pretty cab Matt, and it is great that you got better sound. Question, did you also replace the baffle, or is that the same (old) baffle in a the new cab?

Steven Paris · Post by **Steven Paris** » 4 Mar 2014 10:31 pm

A very interesting piece on the topic of wood used in amplifiers is in Gerald Weber's book "All About Vacuum Tube Guitar Amplifiers"----a chapter called "Wood Matters in Combo Amps". Some quotes:
"I am not an expert on wood, but I know what I hear. The difference between 80-year-old pine and new pine is astounding. The antique pine has a sharpness and clarity that is impossible to find in new pine. I am not talking about a subtle nuance that takes (an expert player) an hour to discern. My tone-deaf sister-in-law could hear what I am talking about on the first try."
"I would never build a speaker cabinet from mahagony or lacewood. Those cabinets were the worst. Some wood actually sounded better than pine---the poplar and the willow. The canarywood and antique pine were very similar. The canarywood was at least 3db louder than any other wood tested."
"Now I will have to go to Brazil and find an 80-year-old house built of canarywood."

Matt Butner · Post by **Matt Butner** » 4 Mar 2014 11:16 pm

The baffle is new as well. I made the amp a little taller so I had to made a new one.

Bill Duncan · Post by **Bill Duncan** » 5 Mar 2014 4:24 am

I love the art deco style from the 1930's, particularly the old floor model radio designs. I recently built a couple of guitar amp cabinets in that style. Although not very practical for travel, the amps are to my liking.

I am working on two now, another combo amp cabinet for me, and a separate head/speaker cabinet for a friend who wants to upgrade the cabinet on his Roland Cube. I've done them both in figured maple. I'm going to do a nitro lacquer sunburst finish on mine, and a red on his to match his Country Gentleman Gretsch.

Like I said, not too practical, but for someone in their mid thirties like me. I'm too far done the road too worry about practical now.

Don't laugh, they're my birthdays, and I can number them like I want too!

Rick Contino · Post by **Rick Contino** » 5 Mar 2014 5:57 am

Matt,

Nice job on that cab! If I were to make a cab out of hardwood I'd definitely go with figured maple. Looks like you 'Kreg'ed the baffle board--interesting! Did you skip fasteners on the sides? I'll bet that method of fastening (vs cleats) as well as the larger cab and baffle has a big effect on the sound difference you're hearing.

Something to consider when thinking about wood for cabinets is density. New pine and redwood are probably some of the least dense wood available and maple would be on the extreme opposite of that spectrum as one of the densest woods locally available. Walnut and old-growth pine is probably somewhere in between those two poles, as a somewhat soft hardwood. Birch ply would fall on the denser end of the spectrum because of all the glue in there.

You can imagine the denser wood being more hard and reflective to the sound-waves and also adding more ballast to the cabinet on the whole. Woods with a lesser density would absorb the sound more in the cabinet. But like I said before, I think it would be a pretty trivial difference with all other variables fixed.

Steve Collins · Post by **Steve Collins** » 5 Mar 2014 9:53 am

Well now we are back into the statement of 'the cab material made a world of difference in my sound' when it actually could be the baffle that made the difference. One would have to do some real testing of the variables before making serious claims.

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 5 Mar 2014 10:19 am

I'd bet that some amp manufacturers did cabinet material testing in the past?
Standel made an Artist amp (can't remember the model) that had 2 - 15" spkrs in an enclosed back. This was during the late 60's. The cabinet was packed with an acoustic material. It wasn't a bass amp. A local steel player used it. It sounded great.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 5 Mar 2014 1:26 pm

Musicians are always looking for resonance, it seems, while the super-critical crowd of hi-fi nuts (audiophiles) do everything they can to eliminate speaker cabinet resonance. They favor very heavy cabinets made of thick MDF, plywood, or even aspenite. It's the same way with amps, as musicians want distortion and "scoops" while the audiophiles want zero distortion and totally flat response.

I see it all as being very subjective, and have a hard time believing that walnut would be worth the cost, over, say, poplar or yellow pine, as the density is likely the only major significance.

Bill Duncan · Post by **Bill Duncan** » 5 Mar 2014 4:19 pm

Density of wood varies greatly, even within the same species. I have maple boards I can hardly lift, and yet I have boards of the same species of maple, the same size, and it's markedly lighter.

It is my thoughts that one should build for looks and use and not put a lot of stock in one type of wood making a very big difference in sound over another.

Matt Butner · Post by **Matt Butner** » 5 Mar 2014 4:51 pm

Rick- I think i done the same to the sides but i will have to check. I was not well versed on amp cabs so i just built it with what i though would work. I have a friend who owns a custom wood working shop so i asked him a few questions when building this. If i remember correctly i think it was his idea to fasten it that way.

Bill- That is exactly what i did, i built for looks and the sound difference was just a plus. I think it would be hard to test cabs, just like guitars they all sound different.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 5 Mar 2014 8:04 pm

Garry,
If you are splurging on this and it is a present to yourself I say go ahead and do it right !

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 6 Mar 2014 6:53 am

Another factor is the speaker. You'd have to listen to the same speaker in each cabinet. I have four 1501BW speakers and each one has a slight different tone in the same cabinet. I also have two D-130F speakers that don't sound exactly the same in the same cabinet. Of the four BW speakers that I own, I prefer one of them to the other three. I spent weeks transferring all of my speakers back and forth into 3 different speaker cabinets and got different tone. I thought it was the difference in the cabinet structure. Then, I concentrated on switching them around in one specific cabinet. In the end, it was the difference between the speakers more than the cabinet.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 6 Mar 2014 12:22 pm

Rick Contino wrote:Matt,
But like I said before, I think it would be a pretty trivial difference with all other variables fixed.

"trivial?" nothing is trivial when it comes to sound. companies have risen and failed due to it.

friend of mine posted a mp3 of a recording of her husband in the early 60s. i emailed her asking which fender and for sure which tweed amp it was. i could tell the sound immediately. a 59 jazzmaster and a 55 tweed super. the recording was at the typical very low levels of that period. you can hear the "trivial" difference in the amp easily!

Bill Duncan · Post by **Bill Duncan** » 7 Mar 2014 1:57 am

With pedal steel pickers "sound" is never trivial.

Tim Marcus · Post by **Tim Marcus** » 20 May 2014 12:56 pm

its almost "who cares what it sounds like?!?"

I happen to think it sounds good

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 20 May 2014 2:22 pm

I'm of the opinion that what makes a big difference in big cabinets will likely make a far smaller difference in far smaller cabinets. It's interesting what Weber had to say about a Bassman cabinet, but I don't think that a far smaller, open back cabinet really has much in common with something like a Bassman or Showman. If you've ever heard either of them alongside something like a Deluxe Reverb, or even a Twin, you know what I mean. IMHO, there is simply no comparison with the warmth, depth, and sound quality you get with a large, closed-back cabinet.

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hardwood for amp cabinet

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