Help me figure out my 8th string.

[Rex Krueger]

So, I've been playing a 6 string lap steel for some time now and I'm getting ready to move up to 8 strings. I currently tune my steel like this: (low to hi) BDF#G#BE, which is E9. I know that I want my new tuning to be: (low to hi) BDEF#G#BE. Note the addition of an E between the D and the F#. But this is only 7 strings.

Now, I don't want to make any changes to this setup. It allows great chords and slants and that new E will allow some mellower voicings of my major triads, which will fit in better when I'm playing more rock-oriented material. But I do want an 8th string. What I don't know is: should it be a higher or a lower string? And what tone is best?

The obvious choices seem to be a high G# or a low E, but I've already got two E strings and I've heard that high G# is very "country" sounding. There's nothing wrong with that high lonesome sound, but I already get enough of it with my current setup. Could I get away with a high C#, and make it E13, or would that just be crazy?

Anyway, I can't be the first one with this problem, so I thought I'd turn it over to the masters. In your replies, please remember, that I don't want to change the strings I already have, just add a treble or bass string.

Many thanks!

[RD Bennett]

So, if I understand this correctly, you're thinking about throwing a C# up a M6 *above* the 2nd-string E4? One concern I'd *personally* have with that is that you have such wide intervals between your top three strings that they'd be more difficult to use for good-sounding melodic runs, etc.

I also am not sure how hard a time you're going to have getting a C#5 out of any readily available string gauge on a 22-25" scale instrument without breakage; I've never personally tried, though. You might be able to get it to fly with a .008 / .0075.

Have you considered trying C#4 as an "inside out" first-string possibility instead? You could still get the added 13th / add'l minor triad, but you'd have better close-voicing possibilities along with a nice little pentatonic run there if you wanted it.

Also, why not try the E-G# combo on top on one of your six-strings before ruling it out? Personally I think the high-and-lonesome on the 10-string E9th tuning comes more from the D#/F# 2-1 combo *in conjunction* with the E-G# on strings 4 and 3... although of course if you do a bunch of slants to add constant yearning 4-3 suspensions with the G# against the E, you *can* get things to sound a lot more country. Otherwise, though, the G# is just really adding another couple of standard triadic possibilities to the top end of your axe.

[Rex Krueger]

"Have you considered trying C#4 as an "inside out" first-string possibility instead? You could still get the added 13th / add'l minor triad, but you'd have better close-voicing possibilities along with a nice little pentatonic run there if you wanted it."

I think you're gonna need to explain that to me a little. It's still morning over here on the West Coast, and I guess my brain isn't quite working yet.

[Earnest Bovine]

I think high G# doesn't sound so good (too thin). I like C# on string 1, then your 7 strings on 2..8 (re-entrant).

[Jerome Hawkes]

just add the low E - esp if you are playing rock - i'd think you would use that a lot, (i don't play rock, so its my guess). This was the standard E9 set up back in the 50's anyway. that way you have meaty power chords without the pesky third being in the way.

what RD & Earnest are saying is putting an "out of order string" on top (string 1), like C# to close the big interval gap you have. that way you aren't jumping around for notes. this is what Buddy Emmons did when adding the 2 "outside" strings to the pedal steel - i.e. strings 1 & 2 are lower pitched than string 3 - this kept the core E9 tuning intact.

[Rex Krueger]

Hmm. Thanks to everyone who has replied so far!

To be clear, I only play rock sometimes and country other times. Maybe 1/2 and 1/2.

I get what people are saying about the C# on top and I didn't realize that concept was at work in the Emmons setup. You really do learn something new every day.

I may do E in the bass, but I'm also wondering about G#. I know it's the lowest string in some 8-string tunings and I can see why, but I'd love to hear people's personal experience.

I was also thinking about putting an A in the bass, although I know that's not in E9 or 13.

[Stephen Abruzzo]

Put an A as the 8th string and that gives you a Bm7 if you work around the lower E. Personally, if I can get a tuning that gives me certain chords without string skipping, I prefer to go that route

[RD Bennett]

I wouldn't worry too much about whether a string is "in" standard E9th or whatever. At the end of the day, what matters most is your own playing style and what sort of tuning serves that style best. You might even want to use your 8-string as a 7-string for a while until you figure out what you'd like to do.

Jerome is right -- I was proposing using the C# *between* your E4 and B3 top strings, which you could also call C#4, as string 1 rather than having that big major-sixth jump up to C#5. You said you wanted C#, so I just suggested a C# in a different and possibly more practical octave.

And yeah, as it sounds like you've just figured out... "standard" E9th has E4 / G#4 / D#4 / F#4 as the top four strings, with the first-string D# actually being the half-step *below* the third-string E. (Plenty of PSG players using the heck out of that "too-thin" G# in "standard" E9th, too, of course...)

(Here, I use the fairly common registral-designation system that calls middle C C4, the C above that C5, the C below middle C C3, and the B a half-step below middle C B3. I wish more tuning guides / lists would use this system; particularly where others' steel tunings are concerned, it would definitely avoid a lot of possible confusion / ambiguity.)