Technique, Looking for a sound

Tavis Anderson · Post by **Tavis Anderson** » 10 Feb 2014 3:42 pm

Still relatively new to my "re-acquaintance" with steel, (2 1/2 years) I'm looking for a sound. I am having a heck of a time getting all of it.

Best described, it can be found in a John Conlee song. "Miss Emily's picture"....

2:30- 2:40 of the following link would be a great example of what I am trying to find. I can fade in and out no problem,,, but! I want it to sustain longer- such as the example in this clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0Lovkfu_l8

I might be at the point where I need an "effects box" to get what I am looking for now??

Thoughts?

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 10 Feb 2014 3:56 pm

No real effects there other than reverb, Tavis, and you should be able to get that from a decent spring tank, which hopefully your amp already has. Don't go spending money on stuff you don't need. If it's sustain you are after you will find it in bar pressure, volume pedal technique and picking the strings with verve and elan.

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 10 Feb 2014 4:26 pm

Dave Grafe wrote:No real effects there other than reverb, Tavis, and you should be able to get that from a decent spring tank, which hopefully your amp already has. Don't go spending money on stuff you don't need. If it's sustain you are after you will find it in bar pressure, volume pedal technique and picking the strings with verve and elan.

True story...I was working with John when that record came out...that's Larry Sasser on steel and plugged straight in to his amp...he probably cut with his amp reverb off and the mix engineer most likely added some big expensive plate reverb when the record was mixed...turn your amp reverb up and it'll be REAL close...or use an RV-5 pedal...what a tasteful job Larry did on that record...just what it needed!I always tried to play it just like that...still do!

Jim Pitman · Post by **Jim Pitman** » 10 Feb 2014 4:40 pm

As far as the lick goes - E9, play the root with no pedals (I think it's in C) slide down two frets then actuate the first pedal, initially plucking strings 5 and 8 only. For a fuller sound throw in string 6.
That's a dramatic way to get a 2 minor.
Often it's hard to hear that there's really more than one note going on. The two can beat against each other extending sustain.

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 10 Feb 2014 5:04 pm

As to sustain, a lot of it comes from good volume pedal technique. IMHO the volume pedal should be at about 2/3rds on when normally picking, and then be slowly increased from there when needed...then quickly back to 2/3rds to pick more notes. Turn your amp up loud enough to allow the VP to be backed off as described.

It takes a bit of practice, but becomes natural with time. After a while you won't even have to think about it...it'll just happen.

Just remember...don't pump the pedal up and down. That sounds awful. Only use it to keep the loudness of the notes constant.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 10 Feb 2014 7:37 pm

Good volume technique and keeping the amp HOT. If you can stay in the same room with your rig if you pick the strings hard with the volume pedal open, you don't have enough power to have sustain.
My pedal rarely goes over about half unless I'm sustaining decaying notes. I run Peaveys about master volume of 10 and pre gain of 4 or 5.
My Twin I run at about 5. I wouldn't want to be near it with full pedal.

Tavis Anderson · Post by **Tavis Anderson** » 11 Feb 2014 6:10 am

Thanks for all the insight guys- I really do appreciate it.

Dave, I was wondering on that part of the reverb in my amp.
I play thru an older Lab5 and I think it needs some work.

I was curious on the album how much "magic" was worked in from the sound booth..... lol

Rick Myrland · Post by **Rick Myrland** » 11 Feb 2014 6:42 am

And if you suddenly wonder where all that VP headroom went and your sustain has been cut in half, make sure your VP hasn't gently slid forward into the pedal rack as mine did over the weekend! For the life of me I could not figure out why I lost half my volume during Folsom Prison, where I do a really long droning train whistle, till I realized the top plate of my pedal was resting on the bottom bar of my pedal rack. Okay, NOW I know why some guys like VP mounts.

Quentin Hickey · Post by **Quentin Hickey** » 11 Feb 2014 10:06 am

Lane. When you say running the amp hot do you mean drivong the preamp stage or post or just running both high in general.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 11 Feb 2014 12:35 pm

Master Volume always maxed, and the preamp gain set at about 4 or 5.

Quentin Hickey · Post by **Quentin Hickey** » 11 Feb 2014 2:50 pm

Lane Gray wrote:Master Volume always maxed, and the preamp gain set at about 4 or 5.

Do you have humbuckers on youre guitar?

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 11 Feb 2014 3:35 pm

Tavis,

Listening to the clip with my producer's ears on, I hear a lot of very detailed production on all of the various instrumental fills, and the effect on the steel would have been put on long after the player was gone. On stage, as long as you do like the guys say and have plenty of volume range available, then a decent amount of sustain and reverb is all anyone would expect.

Sound comes from the hands in the first place.

Tavis Anderson · Post by **Tavis Anderson** » 11 Feb 2014 3:44 pm

Thanks Ian.... I know the engineers can make wonders happen.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 11 Feb 2014 3:59 pm

I "max" the pre and post volumes on every amp I use. (Yes, even my Super-Twin Reverb.) However, I can still play bedroom-quiet when I want to.

Turn the amp up, and learn to use the volume pedal, and you'll have gobs of sustain with pretty much any guitar or amp you're likely to use.

Richard Tague · Post by **Richard Tague** » 11 Feb 2014 4:18 pm

As the "new kid on the block"...I have gathered a TON of info...just from this post. While I have shared the stage with many steelers over the years, I never realized their amp volume...only the could "hang in there" forever. NOW I know.

Headed downstairs to work on my VP technique..albeit witha little more juice coming from the tubes, this time!

Thanks guy!

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 11 Feb 2014 8:00 pm

Quentin Hickey wrote:
Lane Gray wrote:Master Volume always maxed, and the preamp gain set at about 4 or 5.
Do you have humbuckers on youre guitar?

The Zum has an E-66 on the C6. The MSA will have a ToneAligner, the bud has a tapped single coil

Ulrich Sinn · Post by **Ulrich Sinn** » 11 Feb 2014 8:16 pm

How do you deal with bar noise when volume so high and pushing the volume pedal into the decay of the note?

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 11 Feb 2014 8:18 pm

With adequate pressure, there's very little bar scrape.

James Sission · Post by **James Sission** » 12 Feb 2014 3:41 am

Donny or Lane, are you using the amp settings for SS or tube amps or does it matter ??

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 12 Feb 2014 4:25 pm

James Sission wrote:Donny or Lane, are you using the amp settings for SS or tube amps or does it matter ??

No, the type of amp doesn't matter, neither does the pickup. I'm not really suggesting that all players must use these settings, but that they should try them. Learning to do all the controling with your foot gives you a better idea of what your amp and guitar are really capable of. Once you master the whys and wherefores, then you can adjust to your own taste. I make suggestions like these because of the things I've seen and heard in my 50-some years of playing. Still, I'm taken aback, sometimes. Like the time one player told me he couldn't get enough highs from his amp. When I looked at the controls, he had the treble set on "3". When I said he should just turn up the treble control, he looked at me (quite seriously) and said that he didn't want to "burn the thing up". $:\$

James Sission · Post by **James Sission** » 13 Feb 2014 3:54 am

Thanks Donny. I understand your comments as well. I have been around the Texas music scene about 45 years myself and never has anyone mentioned anything about the volume settings you and Lane suggested. Thats why I found it very interesting and I plan to try it myself this evening when I get back to town and have a chance to practice.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 13 Feb 2014 10:03 am

James, at first, running everything "hot" will make the pedal seem overly sensitive to your foot movements. But with practice, it's easy to adjust to this, and you tend to use less foot movement. I'll never forget the first time I saw Chalker playing live. With all that "gutting" and explosive chord punches, I expected to see his foot working the volume like a bicycle pedal. Instead, his movements were small...sometimes barely noticable, but the effect was amazing.

Fred Rushing · Post by **Fred Rushing** » 13 Feb 2014 2:25 pm

Travis, Your question seemed to ask, I want it to sustain and sound more like the recording. What has been said is all valid but remember this. I have been able to see and hear 40 years worth of live steel guitar music and much of it played by the best in the country. NONE of them get the sound live that is produced on the recording. It is all but impossible to get the sound from your guitar live that is reproduced in the studio. Some will disagree but that has been my experience. The recording studio can make a note sustain for ever, it's very hard to do that live. The most important thing you can do with that VP is keep your level consistant. JMO
Fred

Tavis Anderson · Post by **Tavis Anderson** » 18 Feb 2014 3:35 pm

Thanks Fred and all the others.

Something I have learned is I spend too much time trying to replicate what I hear on a recording or even a live version. It took me awhile to learn that sometimes a backing track of certain instruments is played during the show, then I ask myself "how in the heck does the steel player cover so much ground?" I know I tend to bite off more than I can chew at once, but the things I have learned in tis thread are definitely helping.

All I know is when I hit the licks and chords I am looking for, the massive shivers I get down my spine is part of what I am looking for. I just have to learn to hit them more often.lol