Another push/pull second string question ++.

SveinungL · Post by **SveinungL** » 20 Aug 2003 1:35 am

I recently got my Emmons s-12 and have done some changes on it. It works OK now, but I have two questions:

The second string is lowered half a tone withe one lever and a whole tone with another. Is it common to use tuneable half stops on lowers, or are theses best suteable on raises?

Also:
Do the shock springs on the rods have any other function than reducing the "slack-feeling" on the rod? Could it harm the changer if one removed most springs? I've carefully adjusted the stop at the changer to be at exactly the same time as the pedal/lever stop.

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Thanks Sveinung Lilleheier
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Kentucky Riders

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 20 Aug 2003 4:26 am

It is not common to use half-tone tuners on lowers on P/P's. But it is done ocassionally. Because the drop rods are underslung of the crossbars they are difficult to adjust; unless they use "reverse" idler bellcranks that appear to be raises. In any case most half-tone tuners are on raise rods.

The "shock" springs primary purpose are to balance different pulls on the same pedal and/or knee lever. With only three holes in the changer and one in the bellcranks (and NONE on lowers), it is necessary to use springs to "time" the travel of slower moving pull rods. The most prime example is the B pedal; where the travel on the 6th string is miniscule to that of the 3rd string.

Some have opted to remove all the springs. I do not recommend this. The reason is; the secondary purpose for the springs is to provide some "give" with respect to the two stops.

If not, it is very difficult to have them occur symultaneously. And even when you do, if the strings are changed, or adjustments are made at the endplate, the stops need to be readjusted. This is not necessary when using springs.

Good luck, and may Jesus bless you in your quest,

carl[This message was edited by C Dixon on 20 August 2003 at 05:29 AM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 20 Aug 2003 6:55 am

In addition to the reason Carl mentions, the change you mention is done (on different levers), for different reasons by a few us, myself included. The reason we do it is that it's sometimes difficult to hit the half-stops accurately when using them quickly. For this reason, we prefer to use them only on changes that are usually done slowly.[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 20 August 2003 at 07:59 AM.]

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 20 Aug 2003 10:48 am

If the second string is only lowered and not raised, it is common practice on push pulls to utilise the lowering segment of the changer finger as the half stop.

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 20 Aug 2003 11:13 am

I have a tuneable half stop on the 6th string lower on one of my P/P's, but I only use one lever. I use my RKL to do this and the half stop arrangement fit between the balance springs nicely.

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Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 20 Aug 2003 1:29 pm

Yea, what Richard said.

Brad Sarno
'66, '69 Emmons P/P

rhcarden · Post by **rhcarden** » 20 Aug 2003 3:27 pm

I have the 2nd and 9th string lowers on RKL I use the hit on the 9th string to tune the half stop (D) on the 2nd. Since I don't raise the 9th, I use the raise tuning screw to tune the half stop. This makes it possible to raise the 2nd to E, and have the regular D# to D/C# lower. You don't need any addional parts!

Note: when you adjust the haft stop on 2nd string lower, you'll need to retune the 9th string with the key.

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Bob Carden 66 Emmons P/P 8/9
BMI 13 string 7/7

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 21 Aug 2003 8:40 am

FWIW, my Emmons S12U has string 2 lowering D#>D on RKL along with string 9 B>D (common S12U E9th changes), and D#>C# on RKR along with E>Eb's on 4 and 8 (common S12U B6th change).
The half step lower is tuned underneath and the whole tone lower is tuned at the endplate.