Rack mount systems vs. cabinet amps

Dennis Manuel · From: Quesnel, B.C., Canada

Looking for opinions from members who have used both rack mount and single amps?

I am currently leaning towards a rack mount system and not sure what to use for a power amp/speaker combination, or if I should even think about straying off in that direction.

Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

IMO, it depends what type of sound, power you require and type of band you are playing with and are you being miced or just pushing your sound from the stage.

I used racks for years and I believe a rack can help you detail the sound. Nice tube preamp with a processor for reverb and delay, power amp of choice with two speakers is a very nice sound. Now, you have to carry it and you will always hear complaints about that issue.

Not playing out these days so I am looking for a sweeter sound at a living room volume. Go figure?

Lenny

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

I have both systems. My most recent is rack mount system: Revelation tube Pre, TC Electronic 350 (delay, reverb, compression) and a Carvin HT400 stereo power amp. I keep the Carvin in a separate rack case for lighter carrying. This is also my studio gear. But, I use two 15 Black widow cabinets on stage and a single JBL D130F in the studio.
At my age, I'm dispersing my load with the rack system, so less strain on my back and joints.
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1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8.

Ben Godard · From: Jamesville NC

I have been using rack systems for a while. The only thing about going rack is that it starts to get too big and before you know it, you are lugging around a 8 space rack plus two big speakers. I am currently in the process of downgrading mine.

My current racks setup has Mesa Boodie Studio Preamp, Lexicon MPX1, TC2292, Mosvalve 500 power amp and a single space fan unit. A total of 8 spaces.

However I have another one reduced to 4 now. I have another mesa goodie studio pre, and then a vht 2-90-2 power amp. As far as effects Iam gonna find a single effects box that I can mount to my guitar. I haven't decided which effects box to use yet.

The main benefit of having rack system is that you have total control of everything right on the fly sitting right next to you. If you are too loud or soft, or just need tweaking the sound, you don't have get up to walk to an amp head.

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Versatility and a spotless signal chain a plus

Hauling multiple pieces of gear a minus

If you're feeding a concert sound system with a line out the rack starts to look like the way to go, but for small club gigs it's a royal PITA

Eric Philippsen · From: Central Florida USA

What David Grafe said in his posting pretty much sums it all up in just a few words.

I've got rack systems and combo amps. Rack systems are nice, no doubt about that. One thing that wasn't mentioned is that with a rack you have all the controls at your right hand side rather than back where the amp is. Real convenient. Most of the time with a combo amp you have to swivel around, lean over, and make your adjustment. Not a big hassle, but sometimes its a pain.

Sometimes combo amps can be pretty heavy - heavier than a rack unit. However, the upside to that is that everything is in one box rather than separate. Using a little collapsable dolly helps with moving a heavy combo amp, too.

Finally, for me, there's the laziness factor. Heck, I recognize it. You know, sometimes if I'm doing a VFW gig or bar job I just grab a NV 400 and go. Easy set up, good sound and proven. Really, call me judgemental, but is anybody out there in the audience there really going to hear the difference between that combo and a rack setup that takes more time to set up and hassle with?

For bigger gigs, venues, and the studio, yes, I'll take a rack setup. Also, this is a biggie to me. That is, when the sound guy comes around, looks at your steel and setup, and has that deer-in-the-headlights-how-do-I-deal-with-this-thing look, I just point to the XLR-out on the preamp. And, voila, we're both happy.

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

Producing the best on stage sound that pleases me is important to me for motivation to play my best. I prefer electronic reverb with a slight pre delay and total control over it's tail. Some rooms, I prefer to add some delay separately to the reverb. A slight touch of compression from a studio quality compressor is sometimes good. I can get all of it in a rack mount effects processor and have presets. I like the tube sound, after playing for many years through transistors. Tube amps are heavy, so I love a rack mount tube pre.
Many in the audience could care less if there was a steel in the band in my part of the country. Some look stressed when you carry a steel guitar case into the building and would be relieved if you opened the case and pulled out an M-16. Very Happy

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1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8.

Olli Haavisto · From: Jarvenpaa,Finland

A rack system should be designed to be as flexible as possible.
If you need your pre amp and effects only for an overdub session or a DI gig, why haul the power amp?
Put the power amp in one of your speaker cabs, so you can play a smaller gig with your rack and a powered cab. For the bigger gigs bring the other cab and go stereo.
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Olli Haavisto
Finland

Ken Metcalf · From: San Antonio Texas USA

Funny Stuff Dennis

Scott Hay · From: Portland, OR / Yucca Valley, CA USA

For what it's worth, I just went through this and have decided on "rack" so to speak. it's all about the division of weight.

I own a Webb 6-14e, which I love, but it's weight gets to me. For my "split" rig, I'm using a Furlong and Sarno pre (no effects, just a tube reverb box). I'm LOVING it. Both the V8 and Revelation are great sounding pre amps with the Furlong. It's nice not needing a power amp in the rack unit and having that built into the light weight, great sounding Furlong cab.

I'm with Dave Grafe, the extra trip does suck, but it's such a pleasant trip free of grunting. I just got one of these to help be able to carry more at once. I can usually do it in two trips now.

http://www.sears.com/magna-cart-folding-hand-truck/p-00987615000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&kpid=00987615000&kispla=00987615000P

best $25 I ever spent. it's a great little hand truck.

Good luck! Let us know what you decide.

George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

I have used combo amps for 45 years. I have put together a rack system now and have only had it for about 3 weeks. Here is my take on your question:

As other's have mentioned, the big plus for me is having all the controls sitting on an amp stand right next to me so that I can adjust my sound as need be without having to get up off my seat and walk back to the amp, try something, then find it is still not quite right, then having to get up and walk back to the amp again. It is not uncommon for me to do this a dozen times after setting up and then a couple of times after the band kicks in and I need to fine tune.

The other REALLY BIG plus, is that I got a tube Mesa Boogie Studio preamp and a Mosvalve 1500 power amp, so now I have a tube preamp, which I absolutely love. I am getting the sound that I have been trying to get for 45 years.

I am very particular about my sound and am only concerned about the sound I hear and the sound that the audience hears. I don't mind having to pack extra gear, moving heavier gear, taking longer to set up, etc. IF it makes my sound better. I figure my job in the band first of all, is to support the singer and make them sound as good as possible without stepping on them, and 2nd, to make my instrument sound the best that I can possibly make it sound. This is for my benefit, but more importantly, the benefit of the paying audience's ears and they deserve the best that I can give them.

The down side of the rack system is that I now have a 5 space rack mount ATA case to carry (which must weigh close to 60 LB) and an amp stand to sit it on. If I play in larger venues and I have the room, then I will have two speaker cabinets to carry as well, instead of just one amp. Right now, I don't have a speaker cabinet, so I just unhooked the wires from the BW 1501 in my Evans FET 500. I am using that as my speaker cabinet, plus, if my rack system lays down, I can very quickly hook the speaker back up in the Evans and finish out the show.

So after 3 weeks, my opinion right now is, I will never go back to a combo amp. Perhaps a great tube amp like a Milkman or LIttle Walter, but I can't afford these. Plus, I really like the controls right by my side. Also, after I get my two speaker cabinets built, I may place one out front facing me as a monitor. I love hearing the sound in my face like at home rather than behind me. I sure wish I had ears that could be swiveled 180 degrees.

These are my thoughts and experience after going to the rack system and tube preamp after 3 weeks.. I have used the system in 3 gigs, one of which was an outdoor festival. It worked wonderful for me.

I wonder if there would be a market for a combo amp with the preamp rack mounted into the cabinet. That way, you could easily just unplug the preamp from the power amp, then pull the preamp out and rack mount it in a separate case, or not, and have all the controls at your fingertips instead of behind you, out of reach.

Olli Haavisto · From: Jarvenpaa,Finland

The MosValve is actually a solid state power amp with a misleading name.
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Olli Haavisto
Finland

Tim Marcus · From: San Francisco, CA

yeah - they are using MOSFETs as "valves"

on paper they operate in a similar way - in reality not so much
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Milkmansound.com

Olli Haavisto · From: Jarvenpaa,Finland

I have a couple of them. My favorite solid state power amps, they sound good...
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Olli Haavisto
Finland

George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

Olie, thanks for setting me straight. This Mosvalve amp is big and heavy and had the name Tubeworks on it, so I assumed it was a tube amp. I think I am glad to find out that it is solid state so I don't have the heat issue to deal with or tubes to replace. All I know is, it and the Boogie together sound awesome.

George

Tim Marcus · From: San Francisco, CA

I had one ages ago as well - decent sounding loud clean amp. The pots on the front panel were very low quality and crackled the entire time I owned the amp.
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Milkmansound.com

Clete Ritta · From: San Antonio, Texas

Mine crackled so I replaced the pots. I recently hooked up my MosValve 962 to a stereo 4X12 Marshall 1960A cab at home. I was really just experimenting with the cabinet in stereo, as I had always just used it in mono with the 100 watt JCM 900 head it belongs with. This Tubeworks model amp takes up two rack spaces and is 80 watts per side. It has a built in fan, which is a bit loud. It still sounds killer in stereo thru a Korg A2 multi effects processor. I used this system with two Randall 2X10 cabs for a number of years playing guitar live. Its a tad heavy and I had help back then, but it still works! Very Happy

If I were to do a rack today, Id go light and small…just effects and preamp in a lightweight floor rack and a good small powered speaker, but I prefer the Peavey NV1000 for gigs…its just heavy and bulky enough. Wink

George Redmon · From: Muskegon & Detroit Michigan.

Gotta have that tube power amp.
http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/TS100

I'm using a Revelation pre, that i purchased here on the forum, and a carvin tube power amp. Lexicon PCM92 for effects. In the carvin tube power amp, i have installed 6L6 power tubes. Because of my health, and the weight of a rack system, i seldom use my rack system anymore. And i will be selling it, along with other amps i own, shortly on the forum. I am going to work with Tim, and purchase a new Milkman Steel System, with a Peavey 1501 BW Neo speaker in it.

Ben Godard · From: Jamesville NC

AS far as the Mosvalve amps. They are great. Heavy as hell but great. And yes they are solid state. But they are very tube like in response. The main reason for this is that MOSFET technology is voltage controlled vs the BJT's (standard transistor) are current controlled. Tubes being voltage controlled have a natural compression that gives it that tube sound. And MOSFET amps have the very near the same effect. I am not an engineer but this is how it was explained to me.

Charlie Thompson · From: South Carolina, USA

I have gone back and forth over the years. I spent countless hours setting up multiple amp rigs and comparing. The Nashville 400 that Ken Fox modified was always one of my favorites but it was heavy and I really liked 12" speakers and there was always something special about tube tone as well.. I love the way a good amp kinda groans . Having controls/strobe tuner right at my side also became a priority, so I searched through many types of rack mount/amp/speaker configurations. I have finally reached what I think is a great combination. I took the Nashville 400 head out and put it in a special 130 cabinet with a Black Widow Neo speaker.. giving me the 12" and the low weight and portability. In front of that I have a 4 space rack with A Sarno Black Box, a Sarno V8, a Stobe tuner and multiple input switching device (for guitar, lap steel, etc). I was surprised that the V8 did not over drive the main input of the NV 400... I keep all levels low cause its LOUD but the tone at low volumes is unbelievably fat. I use the insert on the 400 for effects (TC Electronic Nova) using midi it switches the inputs on the switcher when I change patches..

John McClung · From: Olympia WA, USA

I use a 4U rack (Stereo Steel combo; TC Electronics M-One XL; Furman AR-1215) with single or dual Telonics 15" cabs (JBL K-130 & BW). But for really small stages, just grab my Webb combo amp, Visual Sound Route 808 overdrive and my packaseat, and down the road I go.

I, too, vacillate on the rack vs combo.

These days I also use PedalTrain Mini pedal board, propped up on my rack's lid which reclines at an angle. I do like the flexibility of stompboxes for quick sound changeups. It currently has a Hardwire Delay, MXR Resonator, Zoom MS-50G, Route 808, and BOSS tuner.
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