Reconditioning/Refinishing Ouch!

Brett Cookingham · Post by **Brett Cookingham** » 25 Jul 2003 1:12 am

It is rather disturbing to think that old fine guitars are being "FIXED" up like new. refin etc. Emmons! Sho-Buds!OUCH!!! It's just Wrong!!!! don't do it! Please stop defacing these beautiful "Original Piece's of American Historical Treasure"!
A 1960 Esquire Custom:
New Cond $35,000
Fairly Used (or Beat) $ 9'000 and Up!
Refin (Fixed)$ 3,000 and Down!
NOBODY KNOWS WHAT A "GOOD SOUND" LOOKS LIKE! NOR SHOULD THEY!
and when yer great grand kids go to sell great grand dads pride and joy (when yer dead)they find out you were a Goober because you fixed the guitar!

Just a thought

OUCH! Peace !!!!

[This message was edited by Brett Cookingham on 25 July 2003 at 11:30 AM.]

David Mullis · Post by **David Mullis** » 25 Jul 2003 2:39 am

As far as PSG's go, I think if the guitar needs a mechanical restoration, then do it. If it has minor cosmetic flaws, then that only adds character. In other words, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 25 Jul 2003 7:30 am

Most of us don't have the pedal steel equivalent of a '60 Esquire sitting around. That would probably be an old Bigsby and I agree that minimal restoration to make it playable would be all that's appropriate. However, it boils down to whether we're talking about instruments or objects d'arte. A guitar is only as good to me as it plays and sounds. I would never buy a guitar as an investment and expect to only get what I paid for a guitar out of it when I sell it. To me, it's a tool, not an heirloom. Now if I HAD kept that pristine early '60s Strat or that '64 Concert that got sold to Stevie Ray . . . that might be different. There are very few instruments that fall into that 'collectible' category for me.

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 25 Jul 2003 8:06 am

What??? $35k...for an Esquire? That's patently ridiculous (even if it's never been out of the case and never been played). This was the "cheap" Fender...a single-pickup student model, far inferior to their Tele, Strat, Jag, or J'master. (Even at the "custom" level, it was under $200 new.) Now, if you had said "1950 Broadcaster", I'd accept it might be worth $35k. But, there are fools out there who pay $50 for buffalo chips, too, so there might be a fool out there for an "original" Esquire.

Be that as it may, steels just don't have the market that straight guitars have, and the simple truth is that a restored Bigsby (or any other steel) is just as valuable (or more so) than a "beat" one in original condition. Steelers are a different breed, and I don't see steelers playing ragged instruments in public. On the other hand, rockers and blues players are seen playing "beat" guitars quite frequently.

On the other hand, I have a pre-Civil War Martin guitar in excellent condition...and I'm looking for 6-figures. Any takers?

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 25 Jul 2003 8:47 am

Brett, what planet are you from? Restored pedal steels fetch two to three times the amount of beaters. You are making a fool of your self. [This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 25 July 2003 at 10:25 AM.]

Brett Cookingham · Post by **Brett Cookingham** » 25 Jul 2003 10:16 am

Kevin, it wouldn't be the first time! (I made a fool of myself) but to further explain myself. Of course instruments should be mechanically sound. But I just don’t think it’s necessary to “repaint or re/mica” unless you’re fixin’ the kitchen.

Peace!

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 25 Jul 2003 11:23 am

I think pedal steels fall into the catagory of vintage cars and hot rods where restored and pretty has more value. I think what is driving the vintage guitar market is the visible "history" of the guitar and, in that respect for the collector, it's about purchased experience and about owning a bit of the artist the same way that buying a painting is about owning a bit of the artist.

I have some steels that were owned by "name" players. If there's nothing wrong with it, I don't touch it, if it's a beater, I'll restore it and sometimes I'll update the mechanics.

Larry Robbins · Post by **Larry Robbins** » 25 Jul 2003 12:52 pm

I got a mexician made Strat that I can let
you have for say......45,000....really!
first 45,000 takes it......

------------------
Sho-Bud ProII
"there's been an awful murder, down on music row!"

Post by **Joey Ace** » 25 Jul 2003 4:11 pm

There's currently an old Emmons D-10 that was "updated" to an All-Pull on Bobbe's site.

I suspect he's still crying.

Skip Keane · Post by **Skip Keane** » 25 Jul 2003 4:26 pm

I agree, well, in sort of!!! While I like the idea of new.... it is like putting a new Ford engine in a classic Jaguar. It runs great, its easy to work on but its not the same.... I think anytime you change the original design your missing with a classic. If you want new stuff then buy a new steel. There are someting that are best left a lone, clean it, polish it, replace broken pieces, but to change the engine is not the way.
thanks,
Skip
1973 Sho Bud Professional
1960 Jaguar

Jim Ives · Post by **Jim Ives** » 25 Jul 2003 6:58 pm

I have a beautiful red lacquer Sho-Bud Pro II that needs some help with the lacquer finish and sticky undercarriage. Who are some of the better guys (or gals) out there who can restore and refinish my Beauty?

------------------
Mullen D-10
Boss RV3
Evans FET 500
Sho-Bud Pro II D10
Fender Stratocaster

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 26 Jul 2003 12:24 am

Duane Marrs of Sho-Bud. 615-868-5344. If you want your Sho-Bud restored/refinished by original Sho-Bud employees.Very reasonably priced. www.duanemarrs.com. [This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 26 July 2003 at 01:25 AM.]

Ed Naylor · Post by **Ed Naylor** » 26 Jul 2003 4:04 am

Duane in my opinion is very capable of doing a good job. He worked for me a while when I had a store in Nashville.The real problem is the "Wannabee" "Expert" that can do the job. I have 40 yrs experience with steel guitars and have tons of parts I have amassed over the years.Sho-Bud being my main items. You would be suprised at the calls I get wanting old MSA, Marlin, ZB etc. parts. My advise- WHEN DOUBT-DON'T. ED Naylor Steel Guitar Works

Bill Crook · Post by **Bill Crook** » 26 Jul 2003 5:25 am

The real problem is the "Wannabee" "Expert"

Believe me......

Duanne Marrs is NOT a "Wannabee Expert".
He is (IMHO) best in this field. He has the knowledge,skills,shop equipment and far more years of experience than many of us will ever know.

HE can repair,add pedals,levers,even build you a new one,if you wish. And to top it all off, He is one of the most nice person you will ever meet.

Ed Naylor · Post by **Ed Naylor** » 26 Jul 2003 7:45 am

In no way did infer Duane is a "Wannabee". He is truly a professional in the business. What I was referring to is the people that find an old guitar with lots of missing or broken parts,and they buy a few dollars worth off me, and then put the guitar up for sale hoping to make big bucks. Recently I got an E-mail from a person wanting some ZB parts. This same person has "Bad Mouthed" me all over the place and now they need me. Guess what!!!!!!! ED

Nick Reed · Post by **Nick Reed** » 26 Jul 2003 10:38 am

I love old classic Steel Guitars - Especially Emmons P\P's. I personally own (2)black '66 Emmons bolt-on P/P's and (1)rosewood '71 Emmons P/P along with a mid 70's Sho-Bud Pro-1. Fortunately, none of my guitars have needed a complete re-furbish/re-conditioning job yet. However, I feel it's great to see people like Ricky Davis, Bobbe Seymour, Bryan Adams, Tom Bradshaw and others who can take a steel thats an "old piece of junk" and make it look and play like new again. So many old Steels of collector value get put away for years & most of us wouldn't touch them.
I'm one who really likes my guitars to look good cosmetically. I make a painstaking effort to try and take care of them - just ask anyone who knows me. I'd rather see a classic guitar get re-juvenated so it can be used, rather than put on a shelf or in a closet and forgotten about. I say a special thank you to those I mentioned and others who do a great job at making these old beat up Steel guitars like NEW again. Just my 2 cents worth!

Nick

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 26 Jul 2003 11:27 am

I might also add that Bobbe Seymour does great restoration work at Steel Guitar Nashville. 615-822-5555.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 26 Jul 2003 12:27 pm

Amen Nick....I'm with you on that.
And I have refered many folks to those names you put up there that does this kinda work....and to restore a steel guitar to "Like new" statis again......Is a Blessing.
Ricky

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 26 Jul 2003 2:44 pm

Ricky Davis is doing the steel guitar community a blessing by restoring neglected, out of regulation, old beat up steels. These classic steels will be available for a new generation of players to experience and play on. Ricky, your work is sterling!

John Fabian · Post by **John Fabian** » 26 Jul 2003 2:46 pm

Duane Marrs would be my Numero Uno pick to refinish, repair, or restore any ShoBud.

You'll find contact information for him and other Master Steel Mechanics and Restoration Specialists here:
http://www.steelguitarinfo.com/restoration/restorationindex.html

This list is fairly comprehensive. Everyone on the list was contacted before adding them. Ricky Davis will be added in the near future.

John Fabian

Please EMAIL me with other possible names and I will contact them to see if they want to be listed as a resource for restoration and/or repairs.
[This message was edited by John Fabian on 26 July 2003 at 03:47 PM.]

Nick Reed · Post by **Nick Reed** » 26 Jul 2003 10:54 pm

John,
I really enjoy your download videos of the '64 Emmons restoration project. I find them very enlightening and full of good information. Thank you for producing these videos and making them available to people like myself. Nick

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 27 Jul 2003 2:24 am

I will add check out the pictures of Duane's
old Sho-Bud refurbishments, with a modern mechanics underneith.
The best of both worlds if you have a mechanical basket case.
You get a great Sho-Bud sound and a modern action, stability and changability.
Very pro looking undercarriages. And the owners have been raving about them.
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 27 July 2003 at 03:28 AM.]