At the Philly Guitar Show

Willis Vanderberg · Post by **Willis Vanderberg** » 25 Jun 2003 6:13 am

I guess my thinking was it has been so long, and lord knows how many folks have owned this instrument,not knowing the circumstance.I have any number of guitars that may have been stolen. I bought them in good faith and supposed the seller was the owner.But then all are not as honest as we would believe.I still have not heard what the seller was asking for this instrument.
Just my 2 cents.
Bud

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 25 Jun 2003 8:40 am

Willis
To answer your question which is a good one.
Would you have contacted an original prior owner of one of the Instrumets you own if you saw the comments I made on the thread Paul started two years ago?? would you not like to have informed the original owner that you have his instrument? and that you are enjoying it and thankful to have it? and would you like to know the history and backround behind such?? Would you see my asking for help regarding Jon Light's generous offer to locate my "Long Lost Bigsby? I have a feeling you would. Others are not like that.

I know I would..if I saw someone posting wanting to know where his or her instrument was,it would have been nice to have had this person contact me,,what did he have to hide?

You answer that..My answer would be,,if it were me I would have been happy to tell the
life story of my guitar and I think I almost did in Pauls thread.....re-read it and form
your own conclusions..Whatever you feel is right is your perogative.

I have my values in order..others have not
learned to practice that..

Best to you. If you bought and Instrument I owned I would have you over for lunch and tell you the whole story and you would have a great lunch and perhaps one of my now famous long stories..

Good Luck...buyer beware..

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 25 Jun 2003 8:59 am

To answer that question as to how many? how long?

The guitar is owned by the buyer who
purchased the guitar from a music store which was sold to this store by my friend.It was purchased as a used Instrument

It is possible and more than likely he was not aware
of the circumstances regarding this guitar,but he was two years ago after seeing
Paul's thread. Why did he not contact me? he could have posted for my e mail address if he wanted to tell me he owned this guitar.
He told me he couldnt see my e mail address
He has been aware of my searching for this guitar as he looks at this forum and has seen
this thread.

I spoke with him over Sunday and Monday,we have not come to an agreement..I only explained my rights to him. He has his theory
I have my proof.

Although it was difficult for me to do,,I called his wife and she is dying from Alzheimers,I spoke with his 51 year old daughter,but I didnt want to discuss this with her at this time..she has enough problems at hand. I make reference to the wife and daughter of the deceased.

That was yesterday,,I called today and leveled with his daughter and she is well aware of what happened to my guitar and if need be in spite of her personal problems will act on my behalf when the situation calls for it.

Im not giving up the ship. The present owner
suggested I pay anywhere from $2000.00 to $10.000.00 for this guitar.thats quite a span in price dont you think? Which by rights belongs to me..I have kept quiet for the time being as I am pursuing legal advice as well as the authorities.That decision as to who this guitar belongs to is not mine,Its up to the proper authorities to decide,,by rights I make reference to the manner in which it was sold by my friend.
I use the words "belongs to me" is my opinion, and I may be wrong so far as the legal system is concerned.

According to the Forum member who saw this guitar...it was in need of a complete restoration,yet the seller told me it is mint.

I have no idea other than what I was told regarding the condition of my Bigsby guitar.
The present owner told me he has numerous guitars and is NOT a player but a collector.

He offered me a settlement which wouldn't buy
500 sets of strings.He has no shame or compassion. That was probably acceptable to him, but to me is an insult to my integrity.
That suprised me as I thought somehow we could work something out,,but not at his terms,,I dont feel confortable paying for a guitar that belongs to me,my name and proof of ownership,

There will be no mention of this persons name
This is a Forum where freedom of speech takes
priority.

It is his decision and his alone to decide what he wants to do..I am willing to listen
but his primary concern was that this thread
be closed and I explained that was not my responsibility and to be quite frank,I would ask that this thread continue,,and to the person I spoke with.....Get Real..call me I am willing to listen and you will have to do some listening as well. If not my attorney can present the information I gave to him.
He has a closed mind regardless of what he has read here and on the thread regarding the
$9000.00 Bigsby sold to a Japanese collector
someone concocted that story out of hearsay or to try to throw me off the track of its actual whereabouts. Take heed to Pauls advice
Paul is an expert on this subject. At this point this is going to be hardball and thats
not the way I play,I prefer to be sensible and compassionate with regard to this person.

However,he will have to listen to the facts and not have a closed mind.

Thanks to all of you who have offered your help and support and those of you who have called me and e mailed me.

Like Yogi Berra said,,"Its NOT OVER TILL IT'S
OVER..I have only just begun.

Best to all of you. edited to make corrections, I am gratefull to all of you who
are open minded whether or not you agree with
my comments or not.

Everything I have ever posted on this Forum since I started has been the Gods Honest Truth,so Help Me God.

I would not do otherwise,,I have my self respect which is all I have left and I will retain that as long as I live.

I hope I dont double dip this post.ouch .edited to add a correction as to
the "wife" meaning my "friends wife" and his "daughter". I'll get it right yet.

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 25 June 2003 at 04:45 PM.]

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 25 Jun 2003 12:14 pm

Jody-as your guitar is in need of total restoration-I will tell you and the jerk who has your Bigsby (who ever he is and we know he is reading this) will never get anything from my sache of original Bigsby parts for it

-and as you know I AM THE ONLY ONE IN THE WORLD with stock of original Bigsby steel guitar parts

Looking back and re-reading that original post I had made-I think it may have been the best one I ever started![This message was edited by PAUL WARNIK on 25 June 2003 at 04:45 PM.]

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 25 Jun 2003 4:09 pm

Paul
I take it the term "jerk" is used as if someone is a "jerk" meaning stupid? I can assure you this man is no "jerk" It is I who
is the "jerk".

I have nothing specific regarding the condition of the guitar at this point,It was told to me by the person who saw the guitar.

I cant imagine a collector not keeping up with his instruments to keep the value at the maximium. When I lost that Bigsby it was in the same condition as you see in Jon's
post.

In my own way ,I am truly sorry that all this came about,I would have rather it had remain unknown as far as its whereabouts. But
to know its alive and hopefully well is somewhat rewarding,like finding a long lost relative and I dont mean a mother in law.

I am sorry for the person who has it as well.
I meant nothing other than to find out if he would consider selling my own property back to me,but seeing that hardball is spoken with his comments,I am disappointed that he took the stance he did.

I recall Jon Light once telling me..quote" do you think your guitar is going to jump into your lap and say here I am

unquote.

I truly feel sorry for the person and I am certain this took him by suprise.I firmly
beleive this can be mended to our mutual benefit.But to acomplish that,a person has to be understanding and have consideration and
I have yet to see that in the few times we have exchnged words..boy I sure can talk.

Vote for me in Row B I'm running for "jerk" of the Century..

I hope that the owner of this guitar has good health and understands
I am only asking for his consideration and not to start a war. I wish him well but wished he wasn't so darned stubborn.Hell I wouldnt want a guitar with a lousy steel players name on the apron .

If it said Buddy E...thats a horse of another color.

A black horse that can "push and pull"..

L8R as my friend Big John would say.

Thanks vote for me. Just dont yank my lever too hard,its wearin out.

I wished I played Piano.Thats difficult to carry.

edited to add...hey seller have a heart you cant take it with you.Send it on home..it miss'es me and I miss it. And those tunings on that guitar are "secret" and they are patented".
Thanks.edited again..I almost spelled it right. Sorry.[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 25 June 2003 at 05:16 PM.]

Greg Sullivan · Post by **Greg Sullivan** » 25 Jun 2003 5:49 pm

WoW
In spite of all this turmoil my buddy still keeps his sense of humor. Thats what makes him special to me.

Jody..you and I have something in common we trust people.This is a great group of friends
you have on here. Thanks Guys.

Greg

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 25 Jun 2003 8:19 pm

Jody; I'd say Best Of Luck, but; luck won't win this one! Diplomacy will be the secret to success. So, you certainly have my Best Wishes! I wish I were a little closer, but; I think you can handle it. You're doing well, Dear Friend.

------------------
“Big John” wknsg®
Franklin, D–10 w/9 & 8
Peavey, Classic 50 – 212
Enhancer, E–LG
Ibanez, AD–9 http://community.webtv.net/KeoniNui/BigJohnBechtels

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 26 Jun 2003 5:19 am

I wanted to post how I feel about this which
has been wearing on me and I assume on the person invloved.

Although I appreciate your'e sentiments and support,we are not the Judge or the Jury, we
are a group of people who share something in
common,the steel guitar.Many of us have become friends through this Forum,many of us may never meet face to face.

I dont want to see this man accused of something he may not have been aware of,for
all I know he very well be the victim of circumstances.

Sure I know something that belonged
to me was taken from me,but this man bought something that he wanted and to accuse him of knowing the circumstances connected would and is unfair to him and myself as well.

Its like a gang fight when I was a young guy,
If my friends saw someone beating up on me
they would come to my aid and help without
asking questions first.

I dont want this to happen here,I dont want a gang fight,I want this to be something that
will end in a friendly way if at all possible
Please dont look upon this man as though he stole this guitar,he bought it with his own
money,he didnt break into a car or a house,
he has had this guitar since the late 1980's
and although he is not a player per say,he enjoys nice things and this surely is a nice thing to have.

I will leave the decision to the legal Eagles
and if they make the call to the best that they feel is correct, I will go with that even though it will nevertheless hurt me.

I only ask that this man not be crusified,you have not done that so far,you
have defended me and I appreciate your loyalty,but please let this play out as it will,and I pray that this person undertands
that I am not "out to get him" his is a Human
Being and all I ask is that he listend to my
story and I would like to hear his side of the story,,the legal system many times can make the guilty the innocent one and vice versa. So far what you have read are the facts,but please dont bash this person,he is
Human and may very well be unaware of the circumstances.

When this is over and no matter how it turns
out I will post the outcome.

A good friend of mine Eddie Mc Mullen wrote a song years ago,,and I dont remember all the lyrics but it goes like this.

NO BODY WINS IN THE GAME OF BROKEN HEARTS.
THE WINNER'S A LOSER WHO CRIED.

I'll be back when this is resolved,,meanwhile
"PEACE"

Thank you.

Jody I edited to re-state my comment...that regardless of the outcome,,this Bigsby will always have my name on it,whoever owns it will have to live with that and I hope whoever it is that they can have a clear conscience after knowing the story contained here and in Paul's thread "The Most Expensive Steel Guitar Ever Sold"

If I have my Bigsby I can live with that name
on the front,,can the owner do the same??

He has my phone # and my address..he is welcome to call me anytime.

I may have to cut off at this point as legal
proceedings are in process.

Thanks again.

Paul this is by far the BEST thread you have ever started back a few years ago.[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 26 June 2003 at 07:16 AM.]

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 26 Jun 2003 7:52 am

JODY-Thanks Friend-I hope the matter resolves

Should your legal team need any assistance (from a self-proclained "expert in the field"

of original Bigsby steel guitars)

You can count on my cooperation!

[This message was edited by PAUL WARNIK on 26 June 2003 at 08:57 AM.]

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 26 Jun 2003 8:17 am

Thank You Paul
I certainly appreciate your offer and you can
bet your BIGSBY collection on that. I will do
as you say.
Thanks..

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 26 Jun 2003 8:35 am

Jody...Paul has offered up some excellent advice. QUESTION: Was a Police Report made at the time of the theft ? If so, is there a "time limit" after which the case is considered "closed" ? (If it were murder, the case would remain open indefinitely). If the Police Report is still on file and valid after 50 years, get them involved NOW. You know the location of the guitar. The law should support your claims in this matter. It's THEFT, pure and simple. Knowingly keeping or trying to sell an item
that is stolen, even if not stolen by the seller, implicates the seller. Call the law!
"Here come da Judge, here come da Judge!"

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 26 Jun 2003 8:42 am

My post shows as follows...500 sets of strings,,,,yeah right..that is single plain
strings,get your calculators out and deduct
50 strings and see what you come up with.

Based on his offer $1.00 a string times 450 strings at that price. You got that?.

I'm trying to be proffesional about this and
I hope he does the same. Add some sincerity
to that mix and wish me luck.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 26 Jun 2003 4:04 pm

There is usually a time limit (statute of limitations) on small crimes unique to each state. I don't know how that falls out in this case.

This guy knows he has stolen merchandise, but he has money tied up in it (possibly innocently at the time of his purchase - I don't know his story). It is customary and considerate to offer the unknowing buyer of stolen merchandise a small finders reward, say 10 or 20% of the value. But the full collector's value? $10,000? No way! File complaints with the police, the Better Business Bureau, and the Guitar Show people.

Jody, I'm sorry I didn't go to the Guitar Show this time around. Steels are rare at the show, and I would have recognized your steel immediately and contacted you. Glad someone else did. Good luck in getting back a piece of your history.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 26 Jun 2003 10:51 pm

The bottom line is.
1.) If the guitar left Jody's possesion without his permision that is theft;
whether by a fair weather friend or a stranger.

2.) No matter how many "owners" were in between Jody and the present owner,
if #1 applies ; it is and always will be stolen property.
No matter how many owned it in good faith in between.

3.) If it it is valued at more than $500 at the time of theft,
which any Bigsby certainly was, it is grand theft and a felony.

4.) if it is not presently in the state where Jody last had posession, then add transporting stolen property across state lines,
making it a FEDERAL jurasdiction felony too.

5.a) Knowingly holding stolen property is also a crime.
If any of the above applies, this guy's daughter, better lean on him big time, because unless he returns the guitar,
and eats his loss, he is in BIG trouble legally.

5.b) Especially if he saw the thread saying it was stolen.
He has aparently admited as much to "someone".
Which means he can be asked that question in court and if he denies it, that is perjury.

6.) Trying to sell stolen property is also a crime. In any state that I know of.

7.) Hiding the instrument away now, so that it can't be found, would constitute obstruction of justice.

I would not want to be on the receiving end of this laundery list of infractions...

Possesion is 9/10ths of the law, but not if the property was originally stolen.

Demanding any price let alone the market price for a long lost instrument from the original owner is just morally very, very low on top of it... regardless of the legal aspects.

I wouldn't want to bet this person isn't watching this thread and he should realise... he doesn't have a legal leg to stand on.

The provenance of this instrument can and should be traced back through the sellers to the original non authorised seller,who should be prosecuted, if Jody chooses to.

Those that help that process shouldn't be punished, those that hinder that process are breaking the law. Obstruction of justice again.

If this person is on the forum, and is convicted and in the public record, he will most likely be "outed" here... or at least by private word of mouth.
Good luck selling any more steels in this rather small insular world of friends.

Oh yes, and if convicted because the original owner was forced to hire an attorny, those attorny's fees will be born by the defenadant not the plaintif.
On top of the total loss of what ever the defendant paid to buy stolen property. And add on attorny's fees for defense too.
I to could be as much as the sale price now of the Bigsby.

If he does the right thing, then most likely with the kindness Jody shows to most every living thing, he will remain anonymous.

What price for your reputation dude?

It boggles the mind that anyone with the knowlege of what a Bigsby is, could have a Bigsby with a well known player's name inlaid on it, and not realise that no amount of time will make this instrument anonymous enough to sell and not be recognised.
Just as it HAS been recognised.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 27 June 2003 at 12:58 AM.]

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 27 Jun 2003 12:57 pm

Donald.
Thank you for your enlightening comments,it makes sense,but sense is not what the legal system is all about.

I am unable to comment and I wished I could,
but the individual connected to this situation has had his attorney write me regarding his rights to this guitar.

I am presently conferring with an attorney so I am not able to comment. Thanks my friend
If everyone thought as you do,this would be
a better world.

Richie Chiasson · Post by **Richie Chiasson** » 27 Jun 2003 9:16 pm

having problems getting on....it's been awhile.....have some comments regarding a situation.....if this works, like Arnold S. I'll be baaaackkkkk

Richie Chiasson · Post by **Richie Chiasson** » 27 Jun 2003 9:28 pm

Aha...that seemed to work!! Whatever it was I did.

Hi Everyone, I don't get on here as much as I'd like due to the pressures of a very busy life-style in my too rapidly approaching old age.

I've read with interest the "saga" of my good friend Jody Carver's 3 neck 4 pedal Bigsby which I've got a picture hanging in my music room.....lemme go get it and read DIRECTLY from the back.....Jody wrote, ""My Bigsby....the one that got away....Dammit"

The photo is a "formal" portrait if you will, showing this birds-eye maple guitar, looks like it's on a reddish brown carpet against a black backdrop.

I'm very distressed to hear my good friend Jody's problems regarding this instrument. I'm GLAD HE'S LOCATED IT.....after all of this time, but Jody, if there is anything I can do....(I'm thinking court testimony here)....just let me know.

I'm also pleased to realize one of you fellas actually has PARTS for these old dinosauers.....who woulda thunk it!! Geez.....wonder what my old dbl 8 with 7 floor pedals in "worn out...but VERY playable" condition is worth....

Jody, take care of yourself and Marilyn, and give her a hug from me will you?

Your old friend,

Richie (you can keep the comb, I don't need it) Chiasson

Dennis Olearchik · Post by **Dennis Olearchik** » 28 Jun 2003 9:09 pm

b0b,

Per Jody's request, please close this thread.

Thank you.

Dennis

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 28 Jun 2003 10:46 pm

I have been VERY busy, still am till middle week. I have a bit more background on this issue now.
But the bottom line again ;
If Jody did not sell the guitar himself and/or give permission to another to sell it, it is still not an legal sale.
Theft report filed or not. Multiple owners in between or not.

If he has one witness to his ownership, and were to testify he never gave the person who sold it permission to sell it.
It SHOULD be enough to establish its misappropriation.
To procede is for the lawyers to decide and the judge.
But, based on my basic legal knowlege, I lived with a lawyer for 20+ years,
it is technically still Jody's instrument.
Just 2¢ before the thread closes.
Good luck!
DAVID D.
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 28 June 2003 at 11:47 PM.]