Steel Guitar Tone!

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 17 Jun 2003 6:59 pm

(burp)..

I love it when nice people get pissed off...

They're so....."civil"..

"I know all about you: How you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were one or the other, but since you are neither, but only lukewarm, I will spit you out of my mouth." -God-

5 bucks for a bag of popcorn??

Ah, what the hell....

Yeah, Yeah, I'll sit down...

EJL

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 17 Jun 2003 7:43 pm

What I like is what I like.
I don't particularly care about what someone else does or does not like. I am confident enough in my experience that I don't need someone else to tell me what sounds good. Enough people have complimented my sound that I have to surmise that I'm not the only one who feels that it sounds pretty good. If someone comes to hear me play and likes what they hear, that's great. If they don't they probably won't come back. That's fine too. Most people don't notice one way or the other because they come to hear the BAND I'm playing with and it's far more important that the group sound good.

That said, I choose the equipment I use for how it sounds. There are some amps I won't use. There are some guitars I won't use. The reason is not that they don't sound good. It's that they don't sound good TO ME. If they don't help me sound like me, I have no use for them. We've really expended a lot of words for something that's pretty simple.

"I yam what I yam"
-Popeye
"Take me as I yam or let me go"
-Boudleaux Bryant
brought to you by the Sweet Potato Growers' Association

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 17 June 2003 at 08:52 PM.]

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 17 Jun 2003 7:57 pm

IF you where not a steel player what tone would be your preference? What would be your favorite steel song,favorite player,etc. A lot of people don't even know what one looks like not to say what a steel should sound like. But when they hear one there impress. Now who do we play for other steel players or people that just like music, Sometimes I feel my playing is not that good to play for steel players ,to play for 3 steelers I get nervous-3,000 people I don't even think about it. Sometimes some of the Posts make me say -Why do I even try? But then when people(not all 3,000) enjoy my playing that keeps me going. Thats the real tone , making people happy with our magic Steel Guitar. Joe

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 18 Jun 2003 9:25 am

I like it when people come up to me at a gig or convention and enthusiastically say "Cool Tone!", "Very Unique!" (of course they don't realize that you're not supposed to use an adjective before the word "Unique").

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 18 Jun 2003 9:35 am

Maurice, I don't see where we are really in disagreement anywhere, you said you disagree but I don't see where and what you disagreed with. I Feel that there is a little more distinction in different tones than you do possibly. I am looking into all aspects of your statements as you are mine, and I don't really see where we are all that far apart on any of our views on this subject. I do play a lot better "thumb style" than you do though!
Bobbe

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 18 Jun 2003 10:27 am

guess i'm a little late on this thread but.......the player makes the instrument special...the instrument doesn't make the player special.reece..rapid rag still knocks me out. as far as msa tone goes, reece and curly made it special.

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 18 Jun 2003 10:31 am

In the acoustic instrument world as well, there is a lot of discussion between "old" tone advocates and "new" tone- old mandolins vs. new mandolins, guitars, etc.- but as far as I can tell, there are two* universal truths about instruments:

1) No matter how good your hands are, you can't add sustain to an instrument that lacks sustain.

2) Tone is another word for character. A great player can draw the most character from an instrument, "old" or "new".

3) Bad setup will obviously impair the situation.

4) A good sounding electric axe, unplugged, is probably going to sound great plugged in, as it will have something going for it "acoustically" in terms of resonance and response.

*5) Musicians are bad at addition.[This message was edited by John McGann on 18 June 2003 at 11:38 AM.][This message was edited by John McGann on 18 June 2003 at 11:40 AM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 18 Jun 2003 10:39 am

Also, I still feel I should say that I still stand behind my past research in dealing with tone what it is , how to obtain it, and I feel that every statement I have made is true and I don't apoligise to anyone for making it. Anyway , I do agree with the Santo and Johnny tone, for what it did, it was the best.

I said something before that you missed or didn't seem to pick up on. I feel you will agree with this and it goes along with what you are saying, and explains why I agree with you on a lot of your thinking.
IT IS: "It would be a shame if we all got the identical tone/timbre. Just like it would be if we all looked identical, drove the same brand and modle of car, liked the same food, etc. Thank goodness we all have a choice in equipment and have the desire to be different".
God bless the free world, and this forum. And you too. [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 18 June 2003 at 11:41 AM.]

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 18 Jun 2003 11:29 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> And the Gods made Love.

-Jimi Hendrix-<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Further, I say, God Bless the Non-Free world too, and the whole solar system and universe if he's got time.

I'm feeling kinda weepy here.. I'm tuned in to the Music of the Spheres, gotta go hit the changer..

EJL

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 18 Jun 2003 11:30 am

Good post John.
EJW, I know how you feel, I'm really siffiling too! Emotions are really running rampant, I hate getting tears in the computer keyboard. Shorts the stuff out and all like that an' all like , ya' know?
Bobbe Sniffels,[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 18 June 2003 at 01:06 PM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 18 Jun 2003 11:53 am

No matter how good your hands are, you can't add sustain to an instrument that lacks sustain.

Technique does contribute to sustain, though. If you pick with authority and use the volume pedal properly, you'll get a lot more sustain than if you don't. That's not "adding sustain to the instrument", but it brings out what is already there.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 18 Jun 2003 1:18 pm

you'd think a person like bobbe s. wouldn't have so much time for computer chatting. do the well built blondes do all the work at the shop?

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 18 Jun 2003 1:57 pm

I want more than one sound from an instrument and it's set up. Not just THE tone, but THESE tones.

But the old axiom still holds.
Garbage In Garbage Out.
If the 1st thing in the chain sucks, then everything after it can't make up for it.
So play a great steel badly through a top self system it will still sound poor.

Play a marginal steel very well though the same system It can sound better, but not great...it will sound as good as it CAN, but not great, unless that is the character you're looking for.

Play a steel you really like and play it well, it will sound as good as your choices of compatible system components.

So if you play 4 long slow notes perfectly and you like the sound of your steel and the amp and effects chains are compatible and high quality.. then you get THAT tone....
that YOU the player are looking for.
It's not some one elses, but yours, and when you are happy it is right... no matter what others say.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 18 Jun 2003 2:12 pm

Yes Chris, it sure looks like it don't it ?
(SGN is my favourite steel shop anyway)
you go Bobbee and so do you Reece

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Steel what?

[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 18 June 2003 at 03:13 PM.]

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 18 Jun 2003 3:03 pm

Believe me, I've played guitars that do and don't sustain well. It is a chore to try to eke out a little more sustain on a guitar that fights you. Why would one want to play a guitar that makes you do that?

Same goes for sounding good (tone or timbre or whatever), there are some guitars that easily produce great tone and others that require more work. Sorry, I'll take the easy way out, so that I can concentrate on the NOTES I'M PLAYING -- that's what's important to me.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 18 Jun 2003 4:43 pm

Larry B., yours is yet another of many great posts on this thread, Chris, yours is ridiculous! But I loved it!

Actually, it takes me almost no time to post on the forum, I just read it as I'm walking through the office, tell Brandy or whoever is at the computer what to say, and keep walking, or talking on the phone. I do many things at once around here. Yes, I should spend more time thinking about what I tell them to write at times but, it usually comes out correctly. When it doesn't, you guys let me know! (Ha! Ha!) Gotta' go, got two P-P repairs, (Aubry and Richards)

I do like these tone threads, this one is good but nothing new on it that hasn't been said twenty times in the last year.
Good forum, what do you really think Eric? (I shouldn't have asked that)

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 18 Jun 2003 5:27 pm

Bobby, are you saying that Brandy types your posts for you? How does that explain the speeling on your posts? I think I just
gotcha!!!!
Jweey

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 18 Jun 2003 6:04 pm

Sorry Jerry,but this is true, chee spells like Eye due,Verie phourlie! What do you expect, she's only 14 and this is Tennessee you know! Did you think I'd hire anyone that could speel butter then mee? But then again, how would I know if they did or not?
See-more

(this massage wuz edited 4 speeling) [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 18 June 2003 at 07:06 PM.][This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 18 June 2003 at 07:08 PM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 18 Jun 2003 6:11 pm

Jerry, I hire them for "Tone", not for speeling! And she's very well toned!
This IS a tone thread you know!

Good gosh, where has this thread gone?

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 18 Jun 2003 7:11 pm

Well...

I think sometimes that a good argument is a welcome diversion from bland agreement.

There's nothing like a good dog-fight once in a while.

However, two things are clear here:

1.We are all on the side of Pedal Steel Guitar, and it's playing, and promotion. At least Five Bucks Worth.

2.All disagreements usually are, or should be mildly restrained or tempered apon refelection of point one, to one degree or another. Editing can be a good thing, if not gone overboard with..

I think that bOb has a very good handle on those that don't realize that.

I thank him for the times when I've been "over the line" without being 86ed. I don't know how he does it. Maybe he didn't read the ones I thought were that way. Maybe he doesn't know who WT Sherman was, and what he did....

There are a lot of things I don't realize and/or know about the people, places, and things involved here, their histories, probable futures etc.

Conversely, I am not a tourist. 25 years is quickly turning into 30.. Not much has slipped past me, though I sometimes wish...

Sometimes it's the Silence that is the most "profound".

Sometimes it's the reading between the lines, knowing some of the principals involved, (probably better than they think)that has me rolling on the floor near to a seizure.

Especially on this one.

I'm praying for all of you....

( My favorite patronization..)

EJL

Oh yeah, Tone...

"Subtly Spiteful" is what I go for..

[This message was edited by Eric West on 18 June 2003 at 08:36 PM.]

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 19 Jun 2003 6:49 am

Would someone that realy knows , name the brand name of the steel guitar that has -That Tone- or what you want to call it. I will take the advise of that person ,and go from there. I want that sound,that tone that so many of you are talking.Joe

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 19 Jun 2003 7:13 am

..OK..I really know...it's the Emmons Push/Pull..

..1 down...now if I can just convince the other 4000 people here...

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 19 Jun 2003 7:26 am

Well one camp says Emmons and more specifically "Push Pulls".
Another says Sho-Buds and a tone preference for "The Professional".
Still another will swear its Bigsbys.
And still another post-wwI Rickinbachers
vs the Fender Stringmasters

But I suspect the PP's and Bud's are the benchmarks, to some extent, for many.

There has been a war between shear weight and shear tone and the weight issue has been winning as many steelers get more geriatric.

That said I have a Sho-Bud and am very happy with it. I just played a Push Pull on stage last weekend and really liked it. Very different sounds, but both I like very much.
Best suggestion try both and get what you prefer.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 19 June 2003 at 08:30 AM.]

Gino Iorfida · Post by **Gino Iorfida** » 19 Jun 2003 7:42 am

For what it's worth, I think a push pull does weigh less than some or should I say a LOT of the allpull type guitars out there. Without saying anything bad about any brand or anything, I remember shipping an sd10 of a guitar (not push pull), and the shipping weight in case+ packing was about 75lbs. My push pull sd10 loaded with 4+5, even with packing, the shipping weight was under 60lbs. Without a case, my push pull loafer is just under 37lbs.... not much heavier than some fo the most 'lightweight' ones made today... in other words, carrying a push pull in case w/o the volume pedal would weigh the same as one of the newer lightweight steels WITH the volume pedal in the case...

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 19 Jun 2003 7:52 am

Sho~Bud.

I hear the price on them has shot up in the last year to about 4 grand in the last year for ones that have been "ProIII-ized".

I don't know much about "Push Pulls", except my MSA Red Baron. It seemed to have pretty good "tone". I used the pickup out of it on my Bud for a couple years. I hear they are re-issuing something like it..

Funny, I think the one "different configuration" I'd indeed "go for" was the double 11 string MSA that Danny Shields had. This would afford having a low E or G# on the E9 neck, and adding a middle D to the C6.

Oh well. I miss Danny more. Guy had a real gift for telling you what he thought.. if you asked him.

EJL[This message was edited by Eric West on 19 June 2003 at 09:08 AM.]