PF Change P4 vs P0

Paul Brainard · Post by **Paul Brainard** » 5 Jun 2003 12:06 am

Anyone have any thoughts on the relative merits of putting the "Paul Franklin" change on Pedal 4 vs. on Pedal 0?

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 5 Jun 2003 2:08 am

forgive my ignorance Paul, but what is pedal 0 ?

Graham · Post by **Graham** » 5 Jun 2003 2:30 am

Crowbear:
Believe he is referring to the pedal to the left of Pedal A, the normal placement for the Franklin pedal on most steels that have it.

In other words, 0, 1, 2, 3

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Rebel™
ICQ 614585
http://users.interlinks.net/rebel/steel/steel.html

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 5 Jun 2003 2:36 am

10/4

thanx Graham

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 5 Jun 2003 3:19 am

According to this forum's "Tunings" page, Paul Franklin already uses P4 for some really drastic things on the C6th neck. If you're looking to duplicate his licks, you might need it for that. Doug Jernigan's C6th setup also has some really rad P4 changes, and these guys are the masters of the tuning. I find the standard A->B change to be of less use than the other pedals, but I'm not prepared to go as wierd as these guys, at least yet.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 5 Jun 2003 5:35 am

I use that change (or a variation thereof) on 'P0', the first physical pedal, to the left of the A pedal.

If you're planning on ALSO installing Paul's C6 P4 change, you should know what you're doing to get the leverage right. Not all guitars can handle NINE pulls on a single pedal as easily as a Franklin. I wouldn't recommend it, just to try it out. If you don't fully understand how it works, you may not find it worthwhile.

But, in any case, I prefer the whole tone drop on 5,6,10 on the very first pedal, sometimes referred to as 'Pedal Zero'.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 5 Jun 2003 5:58 am

Just make sure the pedal can be played w/out trouble at the same time as you lower both E's to Eb on your knee lever. If not you are missing out on a important change.

Bengt Erlandsen

Jerry Brightman · Post by **Jerry Brightman** » 5 Jun 2003 7:14 am

Hi guys,

This is a change I made when I changed to Derby...I have always lowered 5 and 10 on various knee levers, with the 6th string lower, being on a separate knee lever since the early 70's, but this new pedal placement with this change, and because I use it beyond the standard recognized lick, it seemed the way to go, at least for me...
http://www.slidestation.com/jerrys_Pedal%20Set-up.htm

Jerry[This message was edited by Jerry Brightman on 05 June 2003 at 08:51 AM.]

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 5 Jun 2003 8:15 am

I don't have this pedal myself, but just curious, does anybody put it as close to the volume pedal as possible and use the right foot to enguage? Seems like you could do some cool stuff if you could have both feet going.

Paul Brainard · Post by **Paul Brainard** » 5 Jun 2003 8:19 am

Thanks for the replies. This is an extended E9 setup (should have said so), so I don't have to worry about C-neck pulls. Actually, it's a 6+6 S-12, but I'm planning to optimize it for E9 and do some experimenting with the setup (I've already got a D-10 which I prefer for C6 playing.) I think I'll finally have all the knee lever changes I want (i.e. F#-G# AND F#-G AND B-Bb)plus a couple of extra pedals to play with.

Jim Eaton · Post by **Jim Eaton** » 5 Jun 2003 8:57 am

I'm have a new S-12 Sierra being built as a 5/5 extended E9th and the pedals will be set-up "0"-A-B-C-"PF".
JE:-)>

Jerry Brightman · Post by **Jerry Brightman** » 5 Jun 2003 9:25 am

I forgot to say, that my guitars are D10's..
Hope I didn't confuse anyone...and thanks for the emails...

Jerry
http://www.slidestation.com

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 5 Jun 2003 10:13 am

Also remember that this 4th pedal change wa added to the existing 4th pedal for the C6th neck which I believe is where it evolved into the 4th pedal change.

My D10 Carter has 9 pedals, the 4th being the dedicated Franklin change and I am considering putting that change outside of the A pedal as mentioned above as this would move my A, B and C Pedals into the guitar and I think back to their original position under the steel.

tp

John Sluszny · Post by **John Sluszny** » 5 Jun 2003 10:13 am

Paul.
I find it easier to move my feet from AB to 0 than 4 (shorter travel).Also when (and if)you're getting tired of that change one day you'll find this position more convenient for another change (G#'s to G's for instance).
Good luck.
js

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 5 Jun 2003 2:12 pm

I think it is useful to have this pedal next to your "A & B" pedals, so you can quickly jump to it.

If you have the "Emmons Set-Up" you would want it in position 1. If you have the "Day Set-Up" you would want it in position 4.

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Lee, from South Texas
Down On The Rio Grande

Jeff Evans · Post by **Jeff Evans** » 5 Jun 2003 3:30 pm

...or you may want to split the Franklin Drop. That's how Tommy White turned it into The White Stuff.

Wayne Cox · Post by **Wayne Cox** » 6 Jun 2003 1:25 pm

Years ago Buddy Emmons had a pedal that pulled about 5 strings on C6th. When asked why he took it off, he replied,"My leg got tired of holding it down." As Larry Bell has already warned, the Paul Franklin pedal is not for everyone,nor for every steel guitar.
Just my 2 cents worth. There are plenty of useful alternatives!
~~W.C.~~

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 6 Jun 2003 3:42 pm

That's true, Wayne
And, interestingly, that pedal seemed to have started a trend of adding D between the 6th and 7th strings and dropping the low C
F A C D E G A C E D (lo to hi)

I guess I'm an old style player, but I missed the strums and 'standard' C6 grips when I tried that little experiment so much that I changed back.

The Franklin P4 C6 change even has MORE pulls (SIX) and is not musically related to the Emmons change from the 'Great Stream' era.

Obviously, all modern guitars can easily handle the Franklin P4 E9 pulls.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Wiz Feinberg · Post by **Wiz Feinberg** » 9 Jun 2003 10:35 am

I have used a 4th E9 pedal, on the right, since about 1976 when I bought a Lloyd Green model with 4 pedals. Right now I have a double ten Super~Pro, with 10 pedals.

My setup is basically Emmons style. Pedal #4 works the E9 neck and double-lowers #10, single-lowers #9, single-raises #6 and double-raises #5. It gives me a nice, heavy A M-7, with A in the bass. I wouldn't want to be without this change and miss it sorely whenever I sit-in on other steel guitars.

It does require a longer throw on the #10 bridge finger and removal of the raise-helper springs on #9 and #10. [This message was edited by Wiz Feinberg on 09 June 2003 at 11:37 AM.][This message was edited by Wiz Feinberg on 09 June 2003 at 11:38 AM.]