About those fun-filled steel jams...............

[Ray Montee]

As a lap steel/pedal steel player of many years, I find it excruciatingly difficult to play lap steel at those local steel jams.

Hearing all of the other folks pedal changes in a given song, my mind seems to jump into that thinking/hearing process and when it comes my turn to play non-pedal......my mind simply goes blank.

I suffer from the same process when I continuously hear someone in a group playing with one or more strings abusively out of tune. After a given length of time, my mind simply shuts down.

How about your guys? Any of you experience the same frustrating phenomenon?

[Gary Lee Gimble]

Come on Ray, get a grip. You're not on the stage at the GOO, so, playing expertise at said jams will vary. Deal with it, play the melody when its your turn. You can always opt out of attendance too...

Lots of jams in my area, and as one of the weakest links, that be me, seasoned players like your self are an inspiration.

[Larry Behm]

Ray this is the 3rd rant you have posted tearing down others, be it tuning, pedals or non pedals, fun etc. STOP IT. You are single handedly bringing down what many of us have built over the years of the steel guitar local brotherhood.

If some play out of tune LIVE WITH IT.
If some do not know the progression LIVE WITH IT.

We are here for the fun of it, our goal is sharing, learning, laughing, picking.

If others see these posts of yours they might not come to our jams for fear of being under YOUR spot light, they loose, we loose, STOP IT. You are killing us here.

The forum should be about building us up as a community not tearing it down.

REMOVE THIS THREAD or I will talk to B0B and ask him to remove it for you. You will not be allowed to bring us down to your level anymore.

If you do not want to participate in the programs we are putting together, STAY AWAY.

As always, call anytme.

Larry Behm

[Bob Muller]

I also feel that this has gone on way too long, I have done everything that I could do to try and help Ray in the last few years to rejoin the local steel guitar community. However lately all he is doing is attacking us with his endless ranting and I for one have had enough. I know I need to remain silent here, but enough is enough, you've gone too far this time Ray, enough with the negativity..

[David Mason]

I can't help but go back to a point I've raised before - for several hundreds of years, it was considered more than just an option for older, non-performing musicians to teach - it was considered more like an obligation. Even to this day, there are several different "schools" of classical violin studies, based on the teaching methods of violinists long gone. Pieces like the Sonatas and partitas for solo violin by Bach were written as teaching studies for his violin students, but still played today as performance pieces.

[Mike Eisler]

Dear Ray:

Do doubt about it, the better an instrument is played and the more in tune it is the better it sounds. Unfortunately you seem to be having difficulty separating professional playing (doing it for a living and getting paid to be perfect), and a casual jam among folks that do other things for a living. If you consider yourself to be a flawless player then you should share your expertise in a constructive fashion instead of complaining. There are two ways to feel like you have improved. One way is to work hard and actually improve, the other way is to tear others down. You have chosen the later and I am afraid that your approach is burning your social bridges. A written apology is in order.

[Les Anderson]

Hmmm, strange question and summation. I have always thought that jamming with a group of friends and strangers was about the best training possible to tuning out the out of tuners, bad timers and bigger instruments.

With that being said, aren't jam sessions supposed to be loose & easy and just fitting in where ever possible. They are also a great venue for those who are just breaking in at playing with a group and are looking for some expert help from the established musicians.

Ray, you would have a terrible time sitting in on our Friday night jams. At times I swear that some of the guys aren't even playing the same tune the rest of us are playing.

[Joshua Gibson]

Ray, this is becoming absolutely ridiculous ...in the last week You have done nothing but rant & rave about “certain individuals“(really?) being so HORRIBLY out of tune and being such WANNA-BE'S that its become an assault on Your oh so fine tuned senses...I completely agree with Larry on the fact that all You are accomplishing is to tear down Our local brotherhood of Steelers, I feel that Your recent attacks on all of Us have been completely OUT OF LINE because Your poorly feigned innocence as to Who You were referring too in the post that opened this can of worms!... I mean, do You SERIOUSLY think that We are all so clueless as to not know when We're being talked about? (and even more appropriately SLAMMED!!!!).

I mean no disrespect, but I do honestly feel that You could use Your OH SO VERY ABUNDANT opinions in a slightly more CONSTRUCTIVE manner, I was taught to respect My elders so do not take this lightly... But I was also taught to speak My mind, and quite honestly I think You have crossed one too many lines in Your recent tirades...correct Me if I am wrong but I believe the point of Our local jams is to not deal with the cutthroat side of the music industry.

I agree with Mike, a public apology is in order.

[Bob Carlucci]

meh,, So what?.. some guys suck.. big deal.. Most musicians suck in when you think about it, regardless of the instrument.
Only a percentage get into the "proficient zone".. most stink and they freely admit it.. I admit it, for someone at it 37 years I am woeful.. Big deal, when I jam i play my thing and enjoy.. When the next guy plays and he sucks worse than me, i smile at him, nod in appreciation, give him a thumbs up, and do my best to help him become better.

Wanna know something??. I ENVY Ray.. I really do..I only wish I had jams to attend,, they don't exist here .. at least not very often.. In 21 years I have been to 2... The skill levels varied wildly, from really good players to hackers that could barely play an open e chord... Know what?.. We enjoyed one anothers company, enjoyed sitting at each others steels, talked shop, traded licks... I REALLY enjoyed it, and will attend every one I hear about and can reach.. hell, I was about to drive 4 hours down to NJ to attend one that never materialized.. I will NEVER complain about the lack of talent at a gathering of steel players.. I would be honored if I was let in the damn door.
Each of us must remember this... There was a time when we couldn't play a note.. Not one.. None of us was born with a steel guitar in our tiny hands or a Pac a seat until out tender little hiney,,,
Ray, you're a good guy, and a wonderful player.. I've heard your stuff.
However, like each of us, you went through the learning curve.. Please try and keep in mind that that guy that sounds like a cat being swung by the tail doesn't have your experience, nor your natural ability, and may never have it. however he's playing, learning, gaining experience and most importantly, having a grand old time with other steel players.. Good Lord how I wish I could get together with other steel players now and then...

Those horrid, squeaky, sour , out of time , tortured, A&B pedal licks played by other guys would be a sweet treat to my ringing ears... bob

[Bill McCloskey]

"After a given length of time, my mind simply shuts down. "

hmm... I don't know Ray. Maybe you've just run out of musicals ideas.

But I hear you: don't you just hate those wannabe's that don't even know the simplest musical jargon like "vamp".

[Dave Grafe]

Part of the issue is that the local folks all know who has attended the jams, and whose skills are at what level, but the complaints have been generalized and public, with nary a word said in private to any of us.

On the other hand, many of us have repeatedly encouraged Ray to come out and play, and since his abandonment of the pedal guitar we have all delighted in his non-pedal skills and tone. Most of us have said so out loud, both here and in private.

At Bob's place it's easy for beginners and pros alike to slip out of tune navigating the A&B pedals of the various pedal guitars there, each set up a bit differently, and I know for a fact that I have made a mess of it more than a few times. I brought it up some days back in hopes of letting some fresh air into the room but to no apparent avail Maybe it's not me at all, but whoever it is that has got your socks all in a snag Ray, please try to work it out in private instead of adding the bitterness you so obviously harbor to your daily littany.

[Bob Carlucci]

Man I would love to come out to one of your Pacific Northwest steel jams.. Show you hackers how its done!!!!

seriously, I would LOVE to have what you guys have...... I wouldn't miss ANY!.... bob

[Mark van Allen]

I don't know if my experience is germane to this thread, but...
when I first started playing in Michigan around '75, we had an active steel club with fairly frequent jam sessions which included a few of the area's more experienced players, and many of the newer guys. They were always great fun, and served as a platform for newbies to experience playing in front of others, learn some licks and ideas, become indoctrinated into jam etiquette, and learn and grow while sharing some great camaraderie. Part of the beauty of the scene was that nobody expected perfection, and in fact I remember nothing but encouragement for the less accomplished. I know that for me, the experiences certainly contributed to my conviction to keep with it and pursue playing as a career.
It's hard to imagine any reason for not encouraging the seekers.

[Jerome Hawkes]

This reminds me of a story about Louis Armstrong one night playing with a really bad band. After the show, a guy asked how he could tolerate playing with such poor musicians, given his skills - in typical Satchmo fashion he replied, "hell, I ain't listening to them cats!" this always stuck with me whenever I'm in a bad jam and it works, ha, I use it all the time.

[Bill McCloskey]

It is fortunately that someone like Jerry Byrd did not have this attitude.

[Alan Tanner]

Anyway.....I no longer attend jams much for the very reasons stated. The last local jam I went to here for awhile had an older steel man who wanted to dominate everything. Played extremely loud, played all the time, played over everyone else, and one week had his guitar tuned a half fret low and refused to move as he couldn't possibly be wrong. These kinds of jams do nothing for anyone, save stroke an ego. If there was not free food there, NO one would show up....NOT fun OR educational....

[Alan Tanner]

Besides, why pile on Ray?? We read posts on here all the time of guys expressing opinions negative and positive. Posts about amps, strings, blocking, the big bad guitar player who won't let me pick, banjer pickers, effects, tuning both real and imagined, drummers, bass players, endless and pointless Hanky posts, and on and on. Some become very heated and negative and even result in name calling and a couple of times threats. Ray is just expressing his frustration both with himself and the total "joy" of playing a jam....Ray???....many of us "feel your pain"....believe me.....

[Bob Hickish]

quote from Ray
“Hearing all of the other folks pedal changes in a given song, my mind seems to jump into that thinking/hearing process and when it comes my turn to play non-pedal......my mind simply goes blank.”

“How about your guys? Any of you experience the same frustrating phenomenon?”

Hey guys !! we all know Ray can word things that seem to take folks in a different direction , however , if you see the question he ask , it puts it in an area a lot of us have experienced . I too play both Non/ & pedal -- and have found myself mashing pedals a hitting the legs of my stringmaster trying to find that cord -- and if you ever had a Harmonica player behind you playing a one note monotone cord , I have found it to be a brain shut down wile trying to participate .

if everyone started out on Non Pedal it would be easier to understand the conflict that comes with this brain twister.

just my two cents

disclaimer -- I think i suck to

[David Hartley]

I must say...... Ray, if you're not finding them fun filled, just stay away.!

Some of your threads are interesting, some are very negative and pointed and aimed at others.

This is not good forum reading.

[Jack Stanton]

I think David Hartley has nailed it,
If it's simply not fun for you, don't it...

[Ransom Beers]

Ditto,I quit going when it became a chore instead of the fun side of jamming,so I just don't participate.It do get a bit boring sitting at home but a much better frame of mind when I wake up the next day.

[Tony Glassman]

Ray, if you don't enjoy playing lap steel at the jams, why not bring your Emmons?

[Stephen Cowell]

When I suck, I know who to blame... no excuses.

And I know what to do... get back on that pony and ride. The jam is supposed to be where you're allowed to suck... we all sucked at one time, even the best.

But there will come a time when I suck, and can't help it... the slow, inexorable down-slide will have started. I just hope I realize it when this happens, and handle it gracefully. My time with my fellow musicians on this planet is precious... too short to be spent with arms crossed, in critique. Let the bad stuff slide, have fun... and support others like you'd hope to be supported.

[Duncan Hodge]

My answer to the question raised by Ray is "Nope".

[Jack Bowman]

Wow, it sounds like a dawgfight in here....lol. The reason that I don't go to the steeler Jams is that I can't play fer crapp, but I am still trying to revive an interest in the Lapsteel and now, the Pedal steel. There are some of us in this world who are givers and some of us are takers. I concluded many years ago that I can learn something new at every gig if I take the interest in the stuff that others are playing and give some advice when asked "What do you think about it"?I have never been into Approval seeking, therefor I don't crank my amp to the upper limits and blow the pantslegs off of the dancers. The mess of musicians that I know ( pun intended ) are a rather social friendly crowd and have accepted me at my level of talent. That's cool. Those jams that I attend where the steeler is too dang loud and full of themselves, or out of tune would suggest to me that I don't go back. Remember this:"A little bit of something is worth more than a whole lot of nothing"! If you can help others in their search for betterment then, Ray, from the wrath that you have experienced here, I would say that you need to get with your peers and show that you can tune and play with the best of them, but it sounds like you are much like me and need to develope some refined people skills. .....yup,I know, who asked me anyhow!