"Steel" confused newbie

Wesley Medlen · Post by **Wesley Medlen** » 25 Apr 2013 5:28 am

You should be able to find a BMI S10 in this range they are easy to maintain and set up to your likes and Don has parts needed in Scranton Ar.

Storm Rosson · Post by **Storm Rosson** » 25 Apr 2013 6:09 am

Yanick, I have a SD-10 Fessendon ,3x5 I would sell u for 1300 US$ plus s/h , it's in primo shape BLACK (we all know that black sounds best hehe) has a George-L E66 in it and I will throw in a BL-705 just for fun, w/psg cover and flight case. PM me ...Stormy

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 25 Apr 2013 6:54 am

you asked about the quality of the stage one
Doug builds a quality guitar , look at it this way
for $1000.00 you can buy a NEW guitar that will give you years of trouble free service OR you can spend $ 1000.00 on a USED guitar that might have been tinkered with by someone that MIGHT not have known what they were doing and MIGHT give you problems
but as far as the knee levers go, 4 will keep you busy for years

Yanick Roy · Post by **Yanick Roy** » 25 Apr 2013 11:45 am

I did more research and it seems that most of what i like about pedal steel comes from the playing of 3 guys (or is strongly influenced by these 3) :

Sneeky Pete
Al Perkins
Ben Keith

And was done between 68 and 75. Anything common to these guys ( technic, codependant, etc Any instructionnal material specific to that sound? What kind of instruments were they using? S-10 4p 4k?

Thanks

Ron Pruter · Post by **Ron Pruter** » 25 Apr 2013 12:18 pm

Yanick,
Built like a tank. What comes to my mind is Sierra. They are also priced right.

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 25 Apr 2013 12:24 pm

Ben Keith and Al Perkins played full-on 'standard' guitars---Keith played an Emmons. Not sure what Al played.

Sneaky played a highly modified Fender with a very personalized copedent.

Of the three, Ben and Al were strong 'conventional' players--Al still is. Pete invented a whole thing of his own.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 25 Apr 2013 12:33 pm

I'm not terribly familiar with Ben, but I'll agree about Al. I hear stuff that any of us COULD play, but only Al is gonna THINK of.
Kinda like Mooney: it's on the guitar, but you will have to find their headspace to pull it out.

Dan Beller-McKenna · Post by **Dan Beller-McKenna** » 25 Apr 2013 1:18 pm

FWIW: Perkins played on a Fender cable guitar early on ("Last of the Red Hot Burritos", "Mannasas") and then moved to a ZB. Last I saw he was playing a Carter.

Keith Howard · Post by **Keith Howard** » 25 Apr 2013 1:29 pm

Yanick,
Not sure that anyone really answered your question about knee levers (2, 3 or 4)but I believe it is a very important thing to consider. In a very basic setup with only 2 knee levers they will most likely be 1 that lowers your E strings 1/2 step to D# (strings 4 and

and one that raises your E's to an F note. We call these the "E" and "F" levers. The E Lever lowers to a D# and the F lever raises to an F. Not sure why we don't call it a D# lever since this is what it does but allot of things about this instrument do not make sense.

Anyway, these two levers are crucial to most any style of playing. Here's the real point I wanted to get to. There is a TREMENDOUS amount of quality instruction on the internet that will really accelerate your learning. 99% of the people posting these videos will have at least the 4 basic knee levers. If you can't do what they are teaching, you will be very frustrated and have to do weird things to try to get the notes or phrases they are playing.

Mickey Adams has allot of great teaching video's on YouTube. I had the last guitar I purchased set up identical to Mickey's for the sheer fact that I can follow his video's easier (and it was almost exactly what I was already playing). Point is, there are multiple ways of setting up what the pedals/levers do. Most common are the "Emmons" setup and the "Day" setup. I'd really recommend getting a guitar with a standard "Emmons" setup as most teaching material available will be on this copedent and will be much easier to follow. Hope this helps and Welcome!

Yanick Roy · Post by **Yanick Roy** » 25 Apr 2013 2:32 pm

Thanks again to All of you! You guys have given me lots of info, food for thoughts and above all a desire to be part of this community. (The thought of burning my banjo as a gesture almost crossed my mind, just teasing)

Seriously thanks a lot. I have enough info for a while ( dont want to impose or waste anymore of your time) im pretty much sold on the 3p 4k idea and ill be looking for bargains on models you suggested while i continue my researches of this site.

Ill be posting here what i eventually buy. And then Ill bother you guys on how to actually play!

thx again from montreal

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 25 Apr 2013 2:39 pm

(by the way are the Zumsteel and the licensed by Zumsteel equal quality?)

YES ! ( check out the Encore Post here - you can also contact Doug Earnest there )
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=232518

of the 4 levers, the most used are in order:
E - that lowers both Es to Eb strings 4 & 8
D - lowers string 2 Eb to D
F - F - levers that raises both Es to F strings 4 & 8
G - Raises string 1 F# to G or G# - raises string 7 F# to G or G#

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 25 Apr 2013 2:50 pm

Let me tell you what I did when I got my first steel in 1983. I had never touched one and I knew nothing other than that I had a fever and a sound in my head.
I bought the Winnie Winston book and just browsed it for the few weeks involved while I awaited the arrival of the guitar (a BMI). It was tremendously helpful to have this familiarity, literacy, the first time I sat down at it.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 25 Apr 2013 2:59 pm

Crowbear, many that raise 1 to G lower 6 to F#. In the push-pull era, that was the standard Emmons LKR.
I'll second the endorsement of Stage One or Encore. Bruce designed it and made sure Doug knows what he's doing.

Michael Hummel · Post by **Michael Hummel** » 25 Apr 2013 3:13 pm

I know this is an endless subject for debate...but as a new player, I think I have something to offer to Yanick. It's a bit of a minor point...but I would offer that someone following what many consider to be the "standard training", that is the Jeff Newman method, would probably reverse the order of #2 and #3.

That is to say, Jeff teaches the levers in this order:

1. Lower the Es to Eb strings 4&8 (he calls the D lever)
2. Raise the Es to Fs strings 4&8 (he calls the F lever)

As far as I know, the Eb to D lower, and the F# to G raise are not mentioned in his material. Now that I have incorporated E lowers and raises into my playing, I have only just begun to use the other changes.

Crowbear, YOU may use them in the order you listed, but I think for a new player the E raises/lowers are the first things to learn how to use.

(flameproof suit on and ready)
Mike

Terry Winter · Post by **Terry Winter** » 25 Apr 2013 3:41 pm

Contact Al Brisco....you won't be sorry and he's here in Canada. Terry

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 25 Apr 2013 5:00 pm

An S10 3+2 will allow you to do much of the stuff by the players you mentioned. Sure, 4 levers is nice, but don't get duped into thinking they are "necessary". For 2-5 years, a 3+2 will keep you PLENTY busy! Find a teacher that doesn't "stutter" with less than 4 levers (admittedly, they're rare, but they do exist) and you'll find a world of music to be played.

"You gotta have this, you gotta have that..."

Aww bullhockey.

Michael Hummel · Post by **Michael Hummel** » 25 Apr 2013 5:06 pm

I'd just like to second Terry's suggestion to contact Al Brisco. If you are a Canadian steel player, you have to get in touch with Al. For all the reasons you can think of!

http://www.steelguitarcanada.com

Mike

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 25 Apr 2013 5:45 pm

Donny Hinson wrote:An S10 3+2 will allow you to do much of the stuff by the players you mentioned. Sure, 4 levers is nice, but don't get duped into thinking they are "necessary". For 2-5 years, a 3+2 will keep you PLENTY busy! Find a teacher that doesn't "stutter" with less than 4 levers (admittedly, they're rare, but they do exist) and you'll find a world of music to be played.

"You gotta have this, you gotta have that..."

Aww bullhockey.

At the risk of sounding schizophrenic, there's something to that. I think every player should, to keep their brains sharp, play at least a full set on a 3+1 Maverick.

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 26 Apr 2013 4:56 am

One thing the OP has going for him is that he already plays lap steel and therefore(presumably) is familiar with bar slants.Perhaps I'm re-inventing the wheel here,but as someone who went directly from six-string to pedal,it didn't occur to me until the last few years that it's entirely legal to use bar slants on a pedal guitar and that it opens up all kinds of things that either can't be done with pedals or sound better with a slant.