Total Noob Questions: Just Got A Carter Starter

[JC Harris]

Hi,

I’ve been lurking here for several years. The other day I finally got a Carter Starter SN (21)22058. I got it for a song so any grousing about how I shoulda held out for a Sho-Bud or other ‘real’ instrument will fall on deaf ears. This is something I’ve –always- been curious about, though. I am an accomplished ‘normal’ guitarist but P/S is a total mystery to me. So, I have a number of ‘noob’ questions. If these have all been answered 12,000 times before, I apologise. A pointer to the answers will really help. I -have- tried searching here but unfortunately, I’m so ignorant, I may not even know enough ‘lingo’ to see the answers staring me in the face. (eg. I can't keep the names of the various mechanical components straight as of yet.)

1. I assume I can just use ‘normal’ guitar strings. Is there some ‘advantage’ to special types of strings (besides preferring certain widths)?

2. Does the serial # (21)22058 indicate a particularly ‘bad’ or ‘good’ vintage for Carters? Or doesn’t it matter?

3. After about 5 seconds I realized that a bottleneck slide won’t work. I ordered a ‘Shubb SP2’ on-line as it –seemed- to make sense. Was that a stupid idea? I ordered it because the few times I’ve futzed with a P/S I found the giant chrome sausage almost impossible to do anything with. Do people really use the SP2 or should I just suck it up and –learn- to like the sausage?

4. I have –zero- idea how to play this thing… other than, of course, turning the reverb up all the way and ‘going ambient’ as the kids say. I ordered a book from the library: “Pedal Steel Guitar by Bill Keith and Winnie Winston”. Is that still the one to get, or are there better ways to get started?

5. Is there some way to make this thing a –bit- more ‘stable’? It’s not exactly ‘wobbly’ but when I push around the knee levers, it does ‘flex’. Any tips on making it more –rigid-? Again, I don’t think there’s anything ‘wrong’ with the unit---and maybe –this- is a lot of why people dislike the things, but if there are things one can do, I’d appreciate it.

6. Can I just use 3 in 1 oil on this? Any tips on lubing?

7. OK this is the biggee: I haven’t fiddled with adjusting the travel on any of the levers and pedals… although I probably will so they are more ‘uniform’ but there is one mechanical thing that’s kind of a drag: the ‘RKL’ (the 2nd knee lever from the right). It’s not smooth at all… in fact it kinda ‘grinds’ metal on metal. It –works- but not fluidly at all like the others. I’ve attached a crappy piccie. It doesn’t look ‘broken’ per se… but I don’t understand how the mechanism is supposed to work. Is this a typical issue? Anything to be done about it?

Thanks in advance for any help. Again, I realize the Starter is kinda ‘beneath’ a lot of people but it –seems- like it should work if I’m –careful-. I doubt it would last a week on a real gig, but it will never leave my house so hopefully I can learn enough to get something better over time.

---JC

[chris ivey]

jc...you can learn alot on that steel and the winnie w. book has some great beginning stuff and more.
you probably should get an 'inexpensive as you can find' 7/8 in. bullet bar. just get one and start getting used to it. you don't have to pick it up off the strings while playing. just let that sausage lie there with a little downward pressure and keep your fingers that are 'behind' the bar down on the strings. that dampens unwanted overtones.
(of course, you can start with the sp2 bar . i use one for dobro, but the steel is a little easier with a bullet)

your carter starter is light and will move around a little. you don't need too much pressure on it, so just try to lighten your foot and knee bashing a little. lots of us started on a 'less than perfect' steel. it's ok. it builds character.
mainly you just want to start finding your way around the strings and chord positions.
good luck.

oh yeah...plain old electric guitar strings in the correct gauges are fine. i just buy singles at guitar center. or you can buy steel sets here on the forum ...helps support the forum. click on 'strings' at the top of the page in the green bar.

[John Scanlon]

Your C/S has limitations, but it is fine to learn on.
Yes, you can use 3/1 oil, and your nos. 6 and 7 should be combined with this answer. You simply won't make all the KLs uniform, though, because they operate differently from one another on that guitar.
YouTube is your friend. First, learn how to tune it and learn "your first lick" from the Joe Wright "getting started" video included with the C.Starter.

Using the search function on here is your friend.

[Bob Hoffnar]

Welcome !

Here you go:


1. I assume I can just use ‘normal’ guitar strings. Is there some ‘advantage’ to special types of strings (besides preferring certain widths)?

Carter Starters use specific strings for a reason. Get a set that is made for it. That will keep things simple for now.

2. Does the serial # (21)22058 indicate a particularly ‘bad’ or ‘good’ vintage for Carters? Or doesn’t it matter?

Means nothing

3. After about 5 seconds I realized that a bottleneck slide won’t work. I ordered a ‘Shubb SP2’ on-line as it –seemed- to make sense. Was that a stupid idea? I ordered it because the few times I’ve futzed with a P/S I found the giant chrome sausage almost impossible to do anything with. Do people really use the SP2 or should I just suck it up and –learn- to like the sausage?






You could play with a coke bottle if you want but a standard bar is standard for a reason. The SP2 is a great bar but it is best for dobro or sacred steel playing. Get a 7/8 steel bar.

4. I have –zero- idea how to play this thing… other than, of course, turning the reverb up all the way and ‘going ambient’ as the kids say. I ordered a book from the library: “Pedal Steel Guitar by Bill Keith and Winnie Winston”. Is that still the one to get, or are there better ways to get started?

Find a live teacher to get you pointed in the right direction.

5. Is there some way to make this thing a –bit- more ‘stable’? It’s not exactly ‘wobbly’ but when I push around the knee levers, it does ‘flex’. Any tips on making it more –rigid-? Again, I don’t think there’s anything ‘wrong’ with the unit---and maybe –this- is a lot of why people dislike the things, but if there are things one can do, I’d appreciate it.

I would sell it after you figure out which end is up.

6. Can I just use 3 in 1 oil on this? Any tips on lubing?

Don't.

7. OK this is the biggee: I haven’t fiddled with adjusting the travel on any of the levers and pedals… although I probably will so they are more ‘uniform’ but there is one mechanical thing that’s kind of a drag: the ‘RKL’ (the 2nd knee lever from the right). It’s not smooth at all… in fact it kinda ‘grinds’ metal on metal. It –works- but not fluidly at all like the others. I’ve attached a crappy piccie. It doesn’t look ‘broken’ per se… but I don’t understand how the mechanism is supposed to work. Is this a typical issue? Anything to be done about it?

You seem to understand that you bought a turd so don't be all defensive about it. Play it till you can't stand it any more and don't waste time polishing it. If you spend the time practicing instead of tinkering you will play better.

The main thing is to have fun playing !

[JC Harris]

Hey thanks for the replies!

Let's see:
1. Thanks for the word on the strings. I will definitely get some matched string sets (and support the forum), but I wanted to get started and the strings that came with the thing are just -filthy-.

2. If anyone can recommend a P/S teacher in the Seattle area, I'm definitely interested!

3. I screwed up already! The problem knee lever is the LKR (the second from the left... is that the correct designation?) Anyhoo... it has two metal cams. Now it looks like the same mechanism on the RKR (rightmost lever) but the RKR is smooth as silk. The only difference I can see is that the aluminum on one of the cams on the LKR is scored and seems to have no lube at all. Do these wear out? IOW: do they get burrs and -that's what causes them to be stiff? If so, does one simply buy another one? Or have it machined?

4. Oh... one last thing (for now)... is there anyone here who plays WITHOUT finger picks? If possible I'd like to do this. Anyone? Or is it just the only way to go?

I am not defensive about this thing. It is what it is. But it plays in tune and I -love- the basic sound. If I can just get that knee lever a bit smoother I think I'll be in business!

THANKS!

---JC

[richard burton]

The reversing mechanism on Carter knee levers definately need lubrication.

You could check that the allen bolts that both parts of the reversing mechanism use as pivots are not tightened right up, as that will inhibit free movement.

I use regular guitar strings on my steel, as, in the grand scheme of things, the pedal steel guitar occupies a miniscule space in a very small corner of the musical world, and doesn't register on string manufacturers busy production schedules.

As others have said, get a regular solid bullet bar, 7/8" diameter minimum, and use fingerpicks and thumbpick.

[JC Harris]

So those two cams are called a 'reversing mechanism'? Interesting. It seems a weird design to have metal on metal like that. Perhaps something like lithium or 30W would be better than regular oil? Do these levers possibly wear out? As I said there are 'scratches' on one of the pieces.

The reversing mechanism on Carter knee levers definately need lubrication.

Well, I ordered a Shubb SP2 so I'll try that since I paid for it. Maybe it'll end up a door stop. And I'll get out my fingerpicks.. even though I hate 'em. (I don't even play banjo with picks.)

As others have said, get a regular solid bullet bar, 7/8" diameter minimum, and use fingerpicks and thumbpick.

Now... if someone can recommend a good teacher in Seattle/Tacoma I can bother -them-.

THANKS!

---JC

[David McGuire]

As for lube...do a search on Triflow.....it's a Teflon based lube.

[David Nugent]

Did some repair work on one of these a while back for the local Guitar Center (they foolishly left it set up in a remote corner where all the fifteen year old "Shredders" could abuse it). Seem to remember that due to the design, one of the pull rods (the rods that are attached to the nylon tuners on the endplate)actually rests on top of a cross bar rather than underneath, resulting in metal to metal contact and a pronounced grinding noise. Could find no easy way to correct this problem short of fabricating a different pull rod with right angle bends.

[Michael Schuppe]

JC , just sent you a PM with contact #s of a local steeler who gives lessons.

[JC Harris]

JC , just sent you a PM with contact #s of a local steeler who gives lessons.

Doesn't seem to be there. Can you please re-try? THANKS! ---JC

[John Scanlon]

Regular guitar strings are fine if they're the right gauges and type (plain steel or wound) recommended by Carter. The reason Carter specific strings are recommended is just to have the right gauges on there.

Lube the LKR and you'll be good. That lever has problems - including way too much travel which can be reduced, but only by a little. It needs a bit of lube. Many will disagree (but not all), but if you already have 3-in-1 oil sitting around, I wouldn't think twice about using it. For one thing, it's a Carter Starter, not a Franklin. For another thing, many on here use 3-in-1 without issue on all their guitars. On a better guitar, yeah, maybe go out and buy a special tube of Triflow, but on a C/S, I think it's fine.

There are few who don't use fingerpicks, the most prestigious of which is Bobbe Seymour - check out his great store here: http://www.steelguitar.net/ I think most folks would tell you to use them. You sound like a six-string picker who is having trouble adjusting, like most of us. I'm still a relative newcomer, only a few years in, but the good advice from seasoned players is always stick with it and it will come.

[Donny Hinson]

First, get some lessons! Resist the temptation to monkey too much with the guitar until you know something about playing it. Oil or grease the thing? Yes, but leave the tweaking and modding until later.

For inspiration, listen to the last player on this video (Terry Crisp) playing a Carter Starter. There are thousands of players out there, myself included, with much better guitars than a Carter Starter...who can't sound nearly as good.

http://www.myvideo.de/watch/6652563/Carter_Starter_Demo

[JC Harris]

Wow. That Terry Crisp is wonderful. -Great- intonation. Gives me hope! (One reason I stayed away from P/S was that I'd hear guys play with dodgy tuning and I wondered if it was the instrument or the guy.)

This may sound silly, but clearly, it helps to have flexible hip bones. I was carefully watching and they -barely- move their hips to make the knee levers work. So far? I just thrash a lot with a lot of unnecessary movement. Probably some yoga classes wouldn't hurt.

Cheers,

---JC

[Jim Curtain]

http://steelguitar.com/carter/csroddingchart.html



Here is a rodding chart, maybe someone messed around underneath.