Souped up E9

ed packard · Post by **ed packard** » 18 Mar 2003 10:57 am

Copyright 2003 Ed Packard

This is a similar thread to "Souped up C6". It is a bit more difficult as the 6th based tuning is less skip grip oriented than the 7th based E9.

We will start with the 10 string E9, and its included chords as named using adjacent strings, each string in turn being used as the chord root.

Looks like I should come back and "trim" the missing intervals (xx) from some of the colm's, ..gotta sacrifice data to get format.
<pre>
STR FRET 0 FRET 0 FRET 0 FRET 0 FRET 0 CHORDS:
# NOTE F H T CHNG NOTE INT 3 4 5 6 7
ALPHA INT E9 E9 E9 TONE TONE TONE TONE TONE

1 F#-Gb 2-9 F#-Gb 2-9
2 D#-Eb 7-##13 D#-Eb 7-##13
3 G#-Ab 3-b11 G#-Ab 3-b11
4 E 1-#7 E 1-#7
5 B 5-bb13 B 5-bb13 6 s4()
6 G#-Ab 3-b11 G#-Ab 3-b11 m #5 m #5*
7 F#-Gb 2-9 F#-Gb 2-9 s2s4() 7s2s4() 9s2s4()
8 E 1-#7 E 1-#7 s2(5) s2 s2 * s2*b11()
9 D b7-#13 D b7-#13 s2(5) s2 b5 6 s2 b5 6s2b59() 69s2b5#11()
10 B 5-bb13 B 5-bb13 m s4(5) m s4 m6 s4 m6 s4 *() m6s4*11()
</pre>
Some of these chord names require decoding; Here are the keys:
(3,5) etc. would mean that the 3rd and 5th are missing from the chord, ..other enclosed intervals likewise. Technically, the 3rd, 5th, etc may not be missing as they may be there in the form of an s2,s4, etc. but it makes sense to "flag" the reader, and in some cases both intervals might be present. To make the data fit the page, some of the (xx) have been reduced to (), indicating that some intervals are missing, but not naming the intervals.

The * indicates that the octave note re the root is present. This is nice to know when considering single octave AND two octave chord structures. One E9 example would be that when making the 9th chord = 1,3,5,b7/7,9 the octave note is in the way, ..in other words you might want to skip it; Same goes for 11,& 13 chords.

If you see a chord with an s2 or s4, and the 3rd and or 5th IS there, think skip, ..as in Ems2, ..the m and the s2 do not sound so great played vertically (as a chord).

I may have to edit some of the long name chords to get the charts to fit nicely, ..these will appear to violate the rules, my appologies to perfectionists.

Next lets expand the E9 to a 14 string configuration, ..this will encompass the 12 string configuration. The expansion chosen (one of many) will use an additional D for string 12.
<pre>
STR FRET 0 FRET 0 FRET 0 FRET 0 FRET 0 CHORDS:
# NOTE F H T CHNG NOTE INT 3 4 5 6 7
ALPHA INT E9 E9 E9 TONE TONE TONE TONE TONE

1 F#-Gb 2-9 F#-Gb 2-9
2 D#-Eb 7-##13 D#-Eb 7-##13
3 G#-Ab 3-b11 G#-Ab 3-b11
4 E 1-#7 E 1-#7
5 B 5-bb13 B 5-bb13 6 s4(3,5)
6 G#-Ab 3-b11 G#-Ab 3-b11 m #5 m #5*
7 F#-Gb 2-9 F#-Gb 2-9 s2s4(3,5) 7s2s4() 9s2s4()
8 E 1-#7 E 1-#7 s2( 5,) s2 s2 * s2*b11()
9 D b7-#13 D b7-#13 s2( 5,) s2 b5 6 s2 b5 69s2b5() 69s2b5#11()
10 B 5-bb13 B 5-bb13 m s4( 5,) m s4 m6 s4 m6s4*() m6s4*11()
11 E 1-#7 E 1-#7 (3, ) 7 *(3, ) 9 *(3, ) 9 *b11() 9*b11bb13()
12 D b7-#13 D b7-#13 6 s2() 6s2*() 6s2*9() 6s2*9b11( 6s2*9b11#11()
13 B 5-bb13 B 5-bb13 m s4( 5,) ms4*() ms4*#9( m11s4*#9( m11s4*#9bb13()
14 E 1-#7 E 1-#7 (3, ) 7*(3) 7*bb13() 7*bb13#13()

</pre>
Lots of skip grips here. One way to find the wanted chord locations is to lay out the whole neck and locate the desired intervals for the chord that you want. This approach will identify the various chord type locations using any/all strings as the chord root, ..there will be a root note on every string at some fret.

Next lets see what happens if we take the D's out of the mix as is commonly done in the E9/B6 universal. Because we have 14 strings shown, we can add something else for string 12.
<pre>
STR FRET 0 FRET 0 FRET 0 FRET 0 FRET 0 CHORDS:
# NOTE F H T CHNG NOTE INT 3 4 5 6 7
ALPHA INT E69 E69 E69 TONE TONE TONE TONE TONE

1 F#-Gb 2-9 F#-Gb 2-9
2 D#-Eb 7-##13 D#-Eb 7-##13
3 G#-Ab 3-b11 G#-Ab 3-b11
4 E 1-#7 E 1-#7
5 B 5-bb13 B 5-bb13 6 s4()
6 G#-Ab 3-b11 G#-Ab 3-b11 m #5 m #5*
7 F#-Gb 2-9 F#-Gb 2-9 s2s4() 7s2s4() 9s2s4()
8 E 1-#7 E 1-#7 s2( 5,) s2 s2 * s2*b11()
9 B 5-bb13 B 5-bb13 s4(3, ) 6s4(3) 6s4*(3) 6s4*11() 6s4*13()
10 G#-Ab 3-b11 G#-Ab 3-b11 m #5 m 7 #5 m 7 #5* m7#5*#9( m7#5*#9b13(
11 E 1-#7 E 1-#7 Maj * 9 * 9*b11() 9*b11bb13()
12 C#-Db 6-13 C#-Db 6-13 m m 7 m 7#9 m 11#9 m11#9bb13
13 B 5-bb13 B 5-bb13 s2s4() 6s2s4() 6s2s4*() 6s2s4*11( 6s2s4*11bb13(
14 E 1-#7 E 1-#7 6(3, ) 6 *(3, ) 6*b11() 6*b11bb13(

</pre>
The chord names are beginning to clear up a bit. On e worry for the E9 player is that the D's have been removed. This would mean relearning grips unless the D's can be obtained on demand; They can, and the rest of the "learned" grips restored also. This can be achieved by either an activated change (pedal or lever), or the use of a lock thus returning the E9 to the more conventional form (and expanded).

Here is that chart:
<pre>
STR FRET 0 FRET 0 FRET 0 FRET 0 FRET 0 CHORDS:
# NOTE F H T CHNG NOTE INT 3 4 5 6 7
ALPHA INT E9 E9 E9 TONE TONE TONE TONE TONE

1 F#-Gb 2-9 F#-Gb 2-9
2 D#-Eb 7-##13 D#-Eb 7-##13
3 G#-Ab 3-b11 G#-Ab 3-b11
4 E 1-#7 E 1-#7
5 B 5-bb13 B 5-bb13 6 s4(3,5,)
6 G#-Ab 3-b11 G#-Ab 3-b11 m #5 m #5*
7 F#-Gb 2-9 F#-Gb 2-9 s2s4(3,5,) 7s2s4() 9s2s4()
8 E 1-#7 E 1-#7 s2( 5,) s2 s2 * s2*b11()
9 B 5-bb13 +3 D b7-#13 s2( 5,) s2 b5 6 s2 b5 69s2b5() 69s2b5#11(
10 G#-Ab 3-b11 +3 B 3-b11 m s4( 5,) m s4 m6 s4 m6s4*() m6s4*11()
11 E 1-#7 E 1-#7 (3, ) 7 *(3, ) 9 *(3, ) 9 *b11 () 9*b11bb13(
12 C#-Db 6-13 +1 D b7-#13 6 s2() 6s2*() 69s2*9() 69s2*b11( 6s2*9b11#11()
13 B 5-bb13 B 5-bb13 m s4( 5,) ms4*() ms4*#9() m11s4*#9 m11s4*#9bb13(
14 E 1-#7 E 1-#7 (3, ) 7 *(3, ) 7*bb13() 7*bb13#13()

</pre>
For the E9/B6 universal player, there are two ways to get the D's (b7's) into the mix, ...lowering the string 8 E's, or raising the string 9 B's. Raising the string 9 B's is covered in the previous chart, so the next chart shows the string 8 lower results.
<pre>
STR FRET 0 FRET 0 FRET 0 FRET 0 FRET 0 CHORDS:
# NOTE F H T CHNG NOTE INT 3 4 5 6 7
ALPHA INT E79 E79 E79 TONE TONE TONE TONE TONE

1 F#-Gb 2-9 F#-Gb 2
2 D#-Eb 7-##13 -1 D b7
3 G#-Ab 3-b11 G#-Ab 3
4 E 1-#7 E 1
5 B 5-bb13 B 5 6 s4(3,5,)
6 G#-Ab 3-b11 G#-Ab 3 m #5 m #5*
7 F#-Gb 2-9 F#-Gb 2 s2s4() 7s2s4() 9s2s4()
8 E 1-#7 -2 D b7 b5 6 b5 69b5 69b5#11(
9 B 5-bb13 B 5 m m6 m6 * m6*11() m6*13()
10 G#-Ab 3-b11 G#-Ab 3 m b5 m 7 b5 m 7 b5 * m7b5*#9 m7b5*#9b13()
11 E 1-#7 E 1 Maj 7 9 9b11 9b11 bb13
12 C#-Db 6-13 C#-Db 6 m m 7 m 7b9 m 11b9 m11b9bb13
13 B 5-bb13 B 5 s2s4() 6s2s4() 6s2s4*() 6s2s4*#9 6s2s4*#9bb13()
14 E 1-#7 E 1 6(3, ) 6 *(3, ) 6*b11() 6*b11bb13 6*b11bb13#13()
</pre>
Now we begin to see a cleaning up of the chord names, ..skips begin to go away. How much further can this be carried? Lets try EM7, E7, and Em7 based sets.
<pre>
STR FRET 0 FRET 0 FRET 0 FRET 0 FRET 0 CHORDS:
# NOTE F H T CHNG NOTE INT 3 4 5 6 7
ALPHA INT EM13 EM13 EM13 TONE TONE TONE TONE TONE

1 F#-Gb 2-9 F#-Gb 2
2 D#-Eb 7-##13 D#-Eb
3 G#-Ab 3-b11 G#-Ab 3
4 E 1-#7 E 1
5 B 5-bb13 +2 C#-Db 13 m
6 G#-Ab 3-b11 +1 A 11 Maj M7
7 F#-Gb 2-9 F#-Gb 9 m m 7 m 9
8 E 1-#7 -1 D#-Eb 7 m b5 m 7 b5 m 7 b5b9 m 11 b5b9
9 B 5-bb13 B 5 Maj 7 9 11 13
10 G#-Ab 3-b11 G#-Ab 3 m m 7 m 7b9 m 11b9 m 11b9 b13
11 E 1-#7 E 1 Maj M7 M9 M11 M13
12 C#-Db 6-13 C#-Db 13 m m 7 m 9 m 11 m 11b13
13 B 5-bb13 -2 A 11 Maj M7 M9 M9#11 M13#11
14 E 1-#7 +2 F#-Gb 9 m m 7 m 9 m 11 m 13

</pre>This is presented a bit differently from the Souped up C6 thread, ..only the chord types are listed, you must fish out the designator (root note or interval) from the preceding colm's.

And now the chords become more familiar = their names simplify. Next the E7 set.
<pre>STR FRET 0 FRET 0 FRET 0 FRET 0 FRET 0 CHORDS:
# NOTE F H T CHNG NOTE INT 3 4 5 6 7
ALPHA INT E13 E13 E13 TONE TONE TONE TONE TONE

1 F#-Gb 2-9 F#-Gb 2
2 D#-Eb 7-##13 -1 D
3 G#-Ab 3-b11 G#-Ab 3
4 E 1-#7 E 1
5 B 5-bb13 +2 C#-Db 13 m
6 G#-Ab 3-b11 +1 A 11 Maj M7
7 F#-Gb 2-9 F#-Gb 9 m m 7 m 9
8 E 1-#7 -2 D b7 Maj M7 M9 M9#11
9 B 5-bb13 B 5 m m 7 m 9 m 11 m 13
10 G#-Ab 3-b11 G#-Ab 3 m b5 m 7 b5 m 7 b5b9 m 11 b5b9 m 11 b5b9 b13
11 E 1-#7 E 1 Maj 7 9 11 13
12 C#-Db 6-13 C#-Db 13 m m 7 m 7b9 m 11b9 m 11b9 b13
13 B 5-bb13 -2 A 11 Maj M7 M9 M11 M13
14 E 1-#7 +2 F#-Gb 9 m m 7 m 9 m 11 m 11b13

</pre>
And the Em7 set.
<pre>
STR FRET 0 FRET 0 FRET 0 FRET 0 FRET 0 CHORDS:
# NOTE F H T CHNG NOTE INT 3 4 5 6 7
ALPHA INT E13 E13 E13 TONE TONE TONE TONE TONE

1 F#-Gb 2-9 F#-Gb 2
2 D#-Eb 7-##13 -1 D
3 G#-Ab 3-b11 G#-Ab 3
4 E 1-#7 E 1
5 B 5-bb13 +2 C#-Db 13 m
6 G#-Ab 3-b11 +1 A 11 Maj M7
7 F#-Gb 2-9 F#-Gb 9 m m 7 m 9
8 E 1-#7 -2 D b7 Maj M7 M9 M9#11
9 B 5-bb13 B 5 m m 7 m 9 m 11 m 13
10 G#-Ab 3-b11 G#-Ab 3 m b5 m 7 b5 m 7 b5b9 m 11 b5b9 m 11 b5b9 b13
11 E 1-#7 E 1 Maj 7 9 11 13
12 C#-Db 6-13 C#-Db 13 m m 7 m 7b9 m 11b9 m 11b9 b13
13 B 5-bb13 -2 A 11 Maj M7 M9 M11 M13
14 E 1-#7 +2 F#-Gb 9 m m 7 m 9 m 11 m 11b13

</pre>
We could extend this to give the changes and chords for the BM7, B7, Bm7 sets, the AM7, A7, Am7 sets etc as we did in the Souped up C6 thread, but if you read that you will get the idea.

The basic conclusion is that a lot of chords have been sacrificed for the sake of a few licks in the E9 tuning, ..which is good if you are a lick chaser or scale runner in single notes, but bad if you are a chord structure freak. It is now possible to have both worlds in the same instrument and on the same neck, complete with the D's and the learned grips. You do not need 14 strings to do it, 12 is nice, 10 is a bit limiting re chords.

The simple is not always the obvious, so we here point out some patterns re the 13 series:

If you have a IM13 "master chord", you also have a IIm13, a V13, a IVM13#11, a VIm11b13, and so forth. This is true regardless of which note is considered the I root.

Because the same note shows up on all strings, there is a variation on the seven tone two octave chords, and their included sub chords on each of the frets on which the root note can be found.

I am tempted to add the A7, AM7, Am7 sets, ..the B7, BM7, Bm7 sets, to complete the I, IV, V series in 13th chords, but between this thread, and the Souped up C6 thread, those interested enough can extend the principle themselves.

I am also tempted to do a "Souped up A6" thread as the common P1P2 (A&B pedals) in E9 give partials of the A6 structure, and in the 14 string version that we have been using, extending the P1P2 changes gives an A6 chord all the way across; The exercise is left to the student.

Notice that the IM13, I13, Im13 structures are made up of three activated changes; The first change morphs the I69 (E69 here) tuning into the Im13 tuning/neck/chord. To get the I13 neck/tuning/chord we add the same change that gives the b7 in the E69 tuning (E to D). To get the Im13 tuning/neck/chord we add the b3 change to the previous two. Two new changes gets all the chords shown for the 13 series (E7, EM7, and Em7 sets).

You may notice that the E7, EM7, Em7 sets are the same re string location and interval content as the F7, FM7, Fm7 sets in the "Souped up C6" thread, ..enter the "universal" in one of its forms, ..now there is a paradox, ..the Universal AIN'T!, but we get closer to Universal by incorporating the 13 series structures into the existing forms of "Universal".

Look for a thread on "souped up Universal" shortly. We will talk in terms of the E9/B6 unit expanded to 14 strings. A small amout of mental gymnastics is needed to convert what will be presented into the Eb9/Bb6, D9/A6, Bb6/Eb9 structures.[This message was edited by ed packard on 19 March 2003 at 09:51 AM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 18 Mar 2003 2:27 pm

More increadbile stuff here. Ed merci.