are all steel players non-commital ?

Karen Sarkisian · Post by **Karen Sarkisian** » 11 Apr 2013 12:26 pm

I am basically in 3 bands. My favorite of the three only practices together once before a gig and we have a 60 tune song list. My second favorite is a singer songwriter project who also only requires one band practice before a gig. Both bands send out tunes and everyone works on stuff at home.
My third band however, seems to want to practice and work things out as a group sometimes 2 or 3 times before a gig, and the song list is only about 25 tunes. last night I bailed on practice and then felt guilty like I am not a team player. I do see the benefit as practicing together a lot as a band but at 49 years old with a bunch of heavy gear and a day job I am starting to not want to do it, especially on week nights.
The good part for me is that in my neck of the woods there aren't a lot of us steel players and it seems like we are all kind of the same in not wanting to commit, so if i don't make a practice i don't get kicked out of the band, but i do feel like it's a bit selfish if everyone else in the band is showing up. Thinking maybe I should just be honest with them and tell them I want to freelance...
Just curious about other peoples experiences with this kind of thing...

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 11 Apr 2013 12:33 pm

honesty is the best policy unless the only option is to lie.

Rick Myrland · Post by **Rick Myrland** » 11 Apr 2013 12:45 pm

No. I commit 100% and expect the same from others. Having said that, 2 or 3 rehearsals for a 25 minute set seem excessive, to say the least. If you're not happy bow out or your playing will reflect your desire to be elsewhere doing what you really want to do. And, it's only fair to the other members.

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 11 Apr 2013 1:06 pm

No. I agree with Rick and will add, commitment is the way to go. If you bailed on "practice" maybe you are just not into it, burnt out, or just needed some time off. I just did that last night. I told my band, I'm tired tonight and can't put 100% into it plus driving. No worries. I will add that personally, I find it hard to get the ball rolling when a band can only play once a week or so. That is of course up to you.
Was in a band last year that played great swinging country and the guitar player was monster good. However, he didn't want to show up except for playing gigs. So I bailed out.
Here's another way to look at it and i think this pertains to life in general.
It's happening NOW. You gotta put out NOW -AlWAYS - for practice for gigs whether your playing for the bartender or lots of people. You gotta put out NOW! And if you can't, have the sense to stay home, rest up, enjoy you're time, relax. Life is short. Nail it, then relax. Just like a country song.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 11 Apr 2013 1:08 pm

If I am working up a show from scratch I will be thrilled to get three rehearsals in, but if your third favorite ensemble, playing a small set list of familiar songs still takes the most time and effort, that should tell you something, eh?

Unless this venture pays very well in exchange for all that time spent 'practicing' or it is a unique and fabulous experience not to be missed (which is not very likely of a 'third favorite') you have nothing to apologize for, provided you can cut it when the gig rolls around.

On the other hand, I've spent many long hours in rehearsals with my head down and my mouth shut, satisfied to focus on intonation and hand technique, optimizing the forced practice time, so remember to taste the lemonade before you pack it all up and head for home, a little better player than when you arrived.

I mean really, how bad can things really be if you can actually play the pedal steel guitar well enough for three working performers to call on you regularly?

Karen Sarkisian · Post by **Karen Sarkisian** » 11 Apr 2013 1:15 pm

thanks for all the comments. I think I am in too many bands with not enough gigs.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 11 Apr 2013 1:27 pm

I think I am in too many bands with not enough gigs

You are not alone, Karen

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 11 Apr 2013 1:33 pm

If it's country music there's no need to practice at all.

I started playing country in 1982, and the number of times I've practiced with all the country bands I've freelanced with since then can be counted on the fingers of one hand.

Somebody shouts a key, (hopefully), and away we go!!

There's nothing like playing 'by the seat of your pants'

Michael Robertson · Post by **Michael Robertson** » 11 Apr 2013 1:39 pm

Dave Grafe wrote:
I think I am in too many bands with not enough gigs
You are not alone, Karen

That's for sure.!

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 11 Apr 2013 1:52 pm

Rick Myrland wrote: Having said that, 2 or 3 rehearsals for a 25 minute set seem excessive, to say the least.

Well, actually she didn't say it was for a "25 minute set". She said they were covering 25 tunes. In my band, that would cover about two 50 minute sets which is a substantial amount of music. How much rehearsal is required to pull that together depends on many factors but probably the first of them is the self-image of the band: do they aspire to be a totally tight, well-oiled machine, or are they happy with looser, what-the-heck arrangements where no one cares about a certain amount of sloppiness (think Grateful Dead or any of thousands of bar-bands around the country).

Another important factor, of course, is how highly-arranged the tunes are. Are they straight-forward, plain vanilla, or play-em-like-the-record arrangements, or are y'all working out special intros, turnarounds, twin solos, endings, modulations, etc.? All that can take lots of practice together if you want to be able to nail it on the bandstand.

(Of course, there are musicians who are such utter pros -- think Nashville studio "A Team" who could nail even a newly-written tune on the first go-round and put it out on the airwaves the following week and have it go platinum! I assume that's not the case here.)

It's really not unusual for a band to want to have 2 or 3 rehearsals before playing a gig, if their goal is indeed to be a very tight, polished band. (And if they want to be a "show-band", then even more rehearsing would be required.) I'd just say that, if your goals aren't consistent with theirs, then it's really not a good fit for you. Nobody needs to feel guilty about having different goals but a lot of band friction can arise when different members have different goals and expectations (e.g., the full-time musicians in the band who have to live from the band income often have a very different attitude about a lot of things than the guys/gals who have a solid day job and are playing music on the side for fun.) You might be better off finding a more casual situation to be part of, as long as the music still appeals to you.

My two cents, FWLIW

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 11 Apr 2013 2:06 pm

Three practices before each gig? With only 25 songs? Uhh..are the songs different for every gig? Of course, other things must be taken into account; is all the practicing really helping? (Some can play a song forever, and still not play it acceptably.) Are these "high profile gigs"? (Ones where the audience actually sits and listens, as opposed to playing for people who are more into dancing, drinking, or picking up someone for the evening.) Are these musicians/singers really good? (Or, are they the type that must write down the chords for Cold, Cold, Heart?)

Just listening to you, it sounds like you aren't really into what is going on. I've been there, and at some point, you have to decide if the time, mental, and physical effort you're investing is paying off, either monetarily and enjoyment-wise, or learning-wise. If it's not...do something else that's potentially more rewarding or productive.

Being "committed" is one thing...wasting your time with a group and not getting any rewards is another. It's important you learn the difference.

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 11 Apr 2013 2:24 pm

Commitment 100% has worked for me...Straying around has caused many a problem for good player's who show no commitment to one group. They tend to miss the call when a solid/reliable situation comes up.

Date clashing will be the first problem and it is inevitable, and then come's cancelling/or dodging gig's for another group,then comes the wars, and your name will get dragged through the mud!

Thankfully i have never been there!

However i would not commit to a sloppy band or sloppy player's, aim for the #1 band and try to be in the circle's where you would get recommended...Go out and see them play and get to know them, because it is also WHO you know, as you know!

Band Practice...Absolutley, you are in a team like a football team, it's not a 'one man show' everybody prefer's to know what's going on with turnarounds, intro's, lead breaks, exits etc, Neatness is a big seller in music.

After a 10 year stint on the road, i have been with the same 7 piece band for 10 years now, but we work about 45 weeks per year,and do a ton of show opener dates summertime, so i am happy and satisfied and also middle aged with a home life.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 11 Apr 2013 2:43 pm

Thinking maybe I should just be honest with them and tell them I want to freelance...

Karen, do whatever you feel is right for you. Bands have different expectations and demands. A lot of bandleaders won't book gigs unless they have a solid commitment from all of the players. Other bandleaders will book whatever they can, and they know that they can hire one of several good guitarists, or one of several good steel guitarists to cover the gig(s).

Back in the days of house bands when gigs were plentiful I would always commit to one band... a working band. Nowadays the gigs are few and far between so I play with three bands and take whatever gigs they offer to fill in my schedule, It works well for me. I know a lot of good players who freelance now.

As far as band rehearsals, I've done very few in my lifetime! They only work if they are well organized, and everyone is prepared and does their homework.

Karen Sarkisian · Post by **Karen Sarkisian** » 11 Apr 2013 3:10 pm

Thanks everyone. I think part of the problem with this particular band is that everyone is pretty new to country music, and they are also doing classic country, new country and originals. Its a fun group but the gigs are also not all that great. Lots during the week long hours and low pay.
I am going to try to hang in there because I feel like the band is good for my chops, but I think I need to be honest with them about my time commitment. I also kind of feel like the steel is a bit of a embellishing instrument, at least in this genre, so while the forms of the tunes are getting worked out and also the vocal parts (i don't sing) maybe its not necessary to be at all the rehearsals.
The other problem is that I rarely have more than one gig a month which each of the bands, and sometimes we go months without playing, so it's hard to keep chops up with no gigs. Sometimes I'd just rather stay home and work on my own playing ya know ?? It's a lot of gear to haul around for lots of practices...

Craig Schwartz · Post by **Craig Schwartz** » 11 Apr 2013 3:23 pm

I dont have experience with 3 bands and that many practices, (I`m thinking this might be weekly) What I will say is if you`ve been honest with them (and I`m sure you have been) Don`t feel bad at all, You`ll find out how they see it soon enough.

Theres nothing worse than someone knockin the wind out of your sails right before a gig. So Rest easy.
Whats described here , could be the start of a future problem maybe, And if so you may want to fix it early.
Truth with a sense of humor works the best.

Karen Sarkisian · Post by **Karen Sarkisian** » 11 Apr 2013 3:25 pm

I really appreciate all the replies guys. Don't know what I'd do without my friends on the forum

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 11 Apr 2013 3:58 pm

There are bands whose purpose is to gig in front of an audience as often as they can and rehearse only to run down new material.Then there are bands whose purpose is endlessly to rehearse the setlist and gig as rarely as possible.The first kind of band is for players who place value on their labor,and work to make sure it's worth the price charged.The second kind of band is for players,bandleaders,and venues who place no value on a musician's work.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 11 Apr 2013 4:08 pm

I don't know about "non-commital", but I do know we should be "committed".

I play with 2 bands now (I had to cut back), and I had to tell the band I have been playing with since 2006 that I have to give preference now to a newer band I just became a member of. The old band is down to maybe 2 or 3 gigs a month, but the new band is giving me 5 or more a month. I had to shift my commitment in that case.

The musicians that I have been working with for the last 5 or 6 years are all good enough that we can learn the songs at home, including parts, and pull them off fairly well the first time on stage. Plus, the guitar player in the older band and I have one of those musical relationships where we know what the other is going to do. That band has had NO rehearsals in the 6 years I have been with them, and another band that I left back in October (with that same guitar player) only rehearsed once in 5 years. Both were/are very tight bands. So, rehearsals are not always necessary when the caliber of musicians is high.

Karen Sarkisian · Post by **Karen Sarkisian** » 11 Apr 2013 4:46 pm

Richard Sinkler wrote:I don't know about "non-commital", but I do know we should be "committed".

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 11 Apr 2013 4:50 pm

If you are speaking of weekend bands.
Committal to one band is settling for the least potential possible in every phase of the band instead of accomplishing the max potential.

You can only sound as good as the least accomplished musician in the group.

You can only play as often as the person who can play fewest gigs.

You can only book within the limits of the person who can travel the least distance.

You can only book gigs when everyone can play. Generally because of this you find you are committed to a band that doesn’t play often enough to make it worthwhile financially after you pay the travel expenses to the gigs, practices and certainly not worth the time you invest.

They want you to commit but if two or three of these guys or gals get together and decide they don’t like the way you part your hair or you don’t kiss their …… enough…..then you‘re out.

I’ve got their committal right here. Committal this………

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 11 Apr 2013 5:02 pm

...the vocal parts (i don't sing) maybe its not necessary to be at all the rehearsals.

You're right... you don't need to be sitting around wasting your time while the singers try to work out harmonies. Been there, done that... one time only!

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 11 Apr 2013 5:25 pm

I recently started with a 4-piece country band that wanted to add a steel player.
I told them at the first get together that, due to the random distribution of reality (with work, family, etc)... that they need to be able to play gigs without me if I can't make it for whatever reason, and that I won't be able to make every rehearsal, but can usually play along with any soundfiles they send me.
I went to 2 rehearsals and we played three gigs.
They wanted to have a Monday night rehearsal for a Fri night gig that came up.
It turned out to be the week of Spring Break, and I had out of town family plans. I couldn't make the rehearsal or the gig.
They said the gig went great.
The thing is, I still felt guilty for missing that rehearsal and gig (it gave me anxiety).
The next two gigs are the first two weeks of May.
They want to rehearse the last week of April.
It's all good.
All I gotta do is... Act Naturally.

Jerome Hawkes · Post by **Jerome Hawkes** » 11 Apr 2013 5:53 pm

I'm sorta surprised at the 100% committed approach. We are talking, what, splitting a tip jar 4 ways + travel exp, + lost work/ family time + getting in at 3am. We wont even mention lugging a PA around. For that you are suppose to be a team player? Heck, your are the steel guitarist.
Nearly Every "pro" musician I know will never commit to a band unless that band is full time gigging - and even that commitment is subject to dissolve if better money comes ( with approiate notice)
It would be different if you were in one band, if you want to freelance and take the gigs you want that's what I would do.

Bob Simons · Post by **Bob Simons** » 11 Apr 2013 5:56 pm

Are all steel players non-commital? Well, uh, yeah, I mean, no, maybe.....I can't really say for sure.....

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 11 Apr 2013 6:40 pm

How about suggesting a "light practice at your house with acoustic guitars, drum pad, no PA, plus small bass and steel amps. Minimal equipment hauling, set up and travel time for you.