Building chords on C6th

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 10 Mar 2003 7:15 am

Is it reasonable to assume that the way to learn this is to find the roots on one of the bottom four strings, then choosing the higher notes to make the chords, whether by grip and/or pedals? I am trying to find something more comprehensive than just playing a sequence of memorized licks, and be able to play through changes in differing ways.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 10 Mar 2003 8:08 am

It is not only reasonable, it should be the basis for analyzing any tuning. Case in point: the knee levers Buddy Emmons uses. They are very simple one string pulls (he may pull both A's up to Bb, but I'm too lazy to look). So the analysis includes looking into the keys of C (10th or 7th string root), F (9th, w/ or w/o P6 for a dominant or major 7), A (8th w/ or w/o P8 for a minor 7 or major 7), D (10th string root w/P5).

Think of the levers as modifiers (some pedals may be too -- especially P7). I won't go through the entire exercise, but the drill is pretty simple. Taking each root note as the tonic, determine what scale tones C and A (the 3rd and 4th strings) are. Then think about how raising or lowering that scale tone in the upper octave modifies or extends the chord.

e.g.,
KEY: C NO PEDALS
C6 on 10,(7-duplicate/alternate root),6,5,4,3
That's a C6 with root on bottom and top
Raise C to C# to raise tonic to b9 (not very useful in that context, but when you analyze in the key of A you'll find that change converts C6 to A7, where that string becomes the major third. Can also be thought of as the root of a C#dim).
Lower C to B to go from the high tonic to Ma7
Raise A to Bb to go from 6th to Dom7
Lower A to Ab to go from 6th to augmented 5

Follow through with that analysis, noting which scale tones are on which strings with the starting chord (e.g. C6 above) and all four modifications.

Doing this will do several things:
1. make your head hurt

2. reinforce scale/chord theory
3. apply that theory to this specific tuning
4. give you a C6 chord dictionary that you can use anytime you need it.

Even if you don't have all 4 of those levers, the analysis is the same. Good luck.

So, the short answer to your question (I'm not good at short answers) is YES. That is a reasonable assumption, but not necessarily the approach many people use for C6.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 10 Mar 2003 8:26 am

Larry, as usual, you have nailed it. The tuning is NATURALLY built on traditional music theory using stacked thirds. Starting at the ninth string, all notes F,A,C,E,G are a third apart. Add on pedal 7, and you extend the stacked thirds to B,D. The implications of this are enormous. Use string 8,9,or 10 as a root, then using your pedals and knee levers, go after the chord from there.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 10 Mar 2003 3:17 pm

Now a semi historical question.
Why has C6 become the standard for so long, and not C7 with a raise or lower to 6 or maj7. Yes I understand the stacked thirds theory.
I suspect it builds more alternate chords. But haven't analyzed it for this. (it's on my list)

But it seems the D-10 was a combining of the Nashville and western players styles in one instrument and it stuck. Except for Alvino Rey E 6. which might have led to E9.
So was it western C6 to Rey E6 to Nashville E9? as a evolution and finally the U-14 guys [This message was edited by David L. Donald on 10 March 2003 at 03:20 PM.]

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 10 Mar 2003 4:04 pm

Why has C6 become the standard for so long, and not C7 with a raise or lower to 6 or maj7.

I suspect C, first of all, because it's the no sharps and flats key and C6 gives a "comfortable" root to C as well as A-7, the relative minor, without having to think pedals ( which is especially convenient if you are playing without pedals). Dominant chords are not root chords and Cmaj7 is not always appropriate to land on, so C6 is the way to go.

Another thing to consider when building chords on C6 is the bass is going to have the root and 5th so that frees you up to play more 'colorful' chords without having to always cover the root and 5th.

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 10 Mar 2003 5:19 pm

Jeff-I heard your "Dannyboy" an "Christmas Song"and Larry Bell, I heard your "Winter Wonderland" and you guys dont have to take a back seat to anybody, on your C6 playing.

I too build my chords from the 10-9-8 strings, and play most of the time in the Subdominant mode.

I specifically use at least two dedicated Knee levers to meld all this together.

Sad to say though at my age, the technique is half gone . But I appplaud you guys for showing the way on C6 style playing, even if on B6 universal , it is still C6 style jazz.

If we had a low F on the 11th string, it would resolve to the root of the subdominant.

Pretty neat, on my E6 12 string, I have the A subdominant and my 12-11-10 is A-E-A.

But sometimes I use 12-11-10-9- A-E-F#-A,
Which on C6 would be F-C-D-F....al

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 10 Mar 2003 5:27 pm

Al,
I was talking to Skeeter the other day and he said you tore up a few of the old standards on C6 at the picnic this year. Doesn't sound like you've lost too much. One of these days I'd love to hear you play. You are a gentleman and a scholar.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 10 Mar 2003 5:51 pm

Hi Larry, tell skeeter thanks for encouaging this old man..

I just heard your "Ashkokan Farewell", and you did an absolutely beautiful job on it.

It sounds like you blended the E9 side with the B6 side and made it just on one 12 string tuning. The best of both worlds, all on one neck. True?

You and Jeff Lampert are really stretching out. I think the Steel Guitar has a great future and is in good hands.....al

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 10 Mar 2003 6:36 pm

David,
This is one way to find chords on the C6:
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum8/HTML/000716.html

Bob[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 10 March 2003 at 06:38 PM.]

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 11 Mar 2003 3:09 am

Thanks to one and all. I guess you're then supposed to REMEMBER all this stuff you figure out, huh? It looks like the gravy on the biscuit is the chords built using the 5 and 8 pedals that modify the lower strings, then chords with thirds and fifths in the root?

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 11 Mar 2003 6:01 am

Thanks Bob H for a great link.
And I must add that Tom Bradshaw in Winnie Winston's book PSG, was wrong many many years ago in the paragraphs Steel Appeal.
"They themselves rarely have the time to show anyone else what they have spent hours to perfect"
But of course he had no idea this forum(let alone the net!) would exist to prove this line so wrong.
Everything else he said is spot on, of course.
Dave M. For me the chordings are the meat and potatoes, and the lines that come out of them are the gravy and cranberry sauce and oysters in the stuffin.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 11 Mar 2003 7:04 am

That Tab thing I put up is just an excersize to visualize the neck. Its the same thing as knowing where the white keys on a piano are. What chords you construct is something else. Jazz modulates constantly so my little chord map would sound pretty weak musically. But at least its a place to start.

Bob

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 11 Mar 2003 11:58 am

When I originally looked at Bob's chord/fretting table, I remarked that it
was good stuff. I still think it is. I would add the following comments.
Since many players will be playing jazz on this tuning, it is imperative,
IMO, to be able to include string 4 and a knee lever that raises string 4
from A->Bb. Then you would get complete 4-note voicings from the major
scale, and in those cases, the chords would then become
C6,Dm7,Em7,F6,G7,Am7,Bm7b5,C6. Since the C6 and F6 are normally considered
synonymous with a Cmaj7 and Fmaj7 (you can also get the major 7 chord with
pedal 7 or the knee lever that lowers string 3), you basically have a
complete jazz major scale with the root based on string 7 or string 10 (I
very much prefer string 10 as the root, but that is a matter of personal
style). The bottom half of the chord fretting table which starts at fret 3
is also a valid concept that I use all the time as well.. Anchoring your
major scale harmonic concepts of C6 to these 2 runs of major scale harmony,
one on the upper strings, and the other on the lower, is a strong concept
and highly recommended.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 11 Mar 2003 3:14 pm

Bb I see the logic of the A to Bbs, what is racking my brain is WHICH knee lever.

I am putting on a LK, centered for C6 use.
But should it be LKL or LKR... it seems to depend on which pedals I would use it with and when.
With P4 or P5 LKL would make sense, but for P6-7-8 with Left foot, LKR makes sense. But I haven't figured which change to put there and which direction.

I have
RKL2 all the way back,
I can put Buddy's standard changes on RKL1 RKR

But what to do with RKL2 on both C6 and E9

RKL 1 is indented a bit
RKR all the way back.
I really see a need to not have to jump a long ways with the bar to do passing chords.
But I can't figure where to assign what pulls to the levers so I don't suddenly complicate an otherwise easy change I am not seeing yet.