Jeff Newman Courses

[James Quillian]

I don't really care whether used courses are traded on this forum or not. I buy only new material and never sell anything.

For all the complaints about used material, I just don't see that much of it.

It is odd that the biggest proponents of allowing used courses to be sold here are the best customers of sellers of new courses.

[Jim Reynolds]

James, You are correct. There are very few used courses ever sold. The only ones I've seen are those, who have died and their family is selling them, or those who have give up learning. I never stop learning something from the (3-4,000 dollars worth) lessons I have. They get torn, damaged, you buy new ones. Some are not being re-done. I wish I had all the old Woodshed Workshops, I did have. It took me over two years to find the Monthly Lessons Jeff had out. I called Fran, I called Rick, his son-in-law, and anyone I could think of Billy Cooper, Bobbe Seymour. No one had it. It came up on E-Bay and I paid $150.00 for it. Just so I could have it. I just bought some items that had his signature on them. I didn't need them, I just wanted his signature. They were 33 1/3 records. Is this wrong? I think not. If it's wrong to sell lessons, then it would be wrong to sell any item. I would welcome anyone to come and see the amount of steel guitar stuff I have. I had a bunch of MSA parts and misc. I sent to Tom Bradshaw cause I didn't have use for them, but I knew he might. I sure hope Reese didn't get upset. Again, I really don't see the problem, and like James you really don't see that much of it. Let the buyer pay 20% to the producer and lets make music. I loved Jeff, and still love Fran, and plan to place an order with her in about a week. She's still a little doll.

[Joseph Napolitano]

Great post Jim. I'll be ordering from Fran again tomorrow, and I'll never sell any of Jeff's courses.

[Larry R]

Thanks Bob for bringing this subject to light. A couple of months back I introduced a new steel player to Jeffran music and he has ordered several of Jeff's lessons. I would do that for anyone new to steel or who never knew of the products that Fran sells.

Larry R

[james sluder]

b0b,

Thanks for your honest feedback regarding my question about USED Newman courses. And, I'm sorry to hear that you are considering stopping the "sale and trading" of All Used courses. Unfortunately,as you know, this will affect many members who, at times, can't afford paying full prices. (I wish there was a way around this problem as you explain it.) However, this is your site, and you have to make decisions relative to its operation, especially when something goes against your good conscience.

I agree with Fred..some of us are low income and cannot afford the prices of new material .So being able to buy material from a forum member helps us ..I can understand your point b0b ,,so do what you must do !

Jim.

Fred

[James Quillian]

I have been real impressed with the up from the top series. Does anyone have an opinion on the C6 DVD’s?

[steve takacs]

James, I bought the two video "C6th and Swinging" set when DVD was not available but I assume it is the same as what is on the DVD. In my opinion, the "C6 & Swinging" four hours course is well worth buying. It is very systematic in approach and covers: six pockets and eight short song-exercises that demonstrate those pockets, progressions, seven intros, four endings, and finally these songs: (Sweet Georgia Brown, San Antonio Rose,Tennessee Teepee,3625 Swing Street)
I continually go back and review this material. It never gets old, although I do.

By the way, if anyone could make me a DVD copy of this course, I'd appreciate it. Afraid the tapes are getting a little worn. stevet

[James Quillian]

Steve, thanks for the input. I didn't know there was a previous audio C6 course. Anything you have used that is good, I would like to hear about it.

James, I bought the two video "C6th and Swinging" set when DVD was not available but I assume it is the same as what is on the DVD. In my opinion, the "C6 & Swinging" four hours course is well worth buying. It is very systematic in approach and covers: six pockets and eight short song-exercises that demonstrate those pockets, progressions, seven intros, four endings, and finally these songs: (Sweet Georgia Brown, San Antonio Rose,Tennessee Teepee,3625 Swing Street)
I continually go back and review this material. It never gets old, although I do.

By the way, if anyone could make me a DVD copy of this course, I'd appreciate it. Afraid the tapes are getting a little worn. stevet

[Douglas Schuch]

At the risk of making myself unpopular, I will point out that most of these courses include recordings of songs by other songwriters. Those songs carry copyrights, and to use them in a recording the creators of the courses are required by law to pay a royalty to the songwriters. I imagine a few honest musicians pay the songwriters royalty for the music on their course. I also suspect some do not. It is a little disingenuous to whine about the legal sale of second-hand instructional courses if at the same time the material itself is possibly violating someone else's copyright!

As some have pointed out, very little actually turns up used here, particularly of Jeff N's courses. What I have seen is older, typically with cassettes (I did not realize anyone still had cassette players!).

I, like most on the forum, have purchased a fair amount of instructional material. So far, all has been purchased new, and none has been sold.

Personally, I am very surprised that so few have developed online downloads of learning material. I can buy CD's online from CDBaby and be listening to them in 5 minutes, here in the Philippines. But an instructional course from most teachers requires I time the order when I have box of goodies coming my way, and if I am lucky, in 3-4 months I can start learning from it. Perhaps, b0b, you should build an online-downloadable store to sell for the various instructors' material. If they have a 10-year supply of pressed CD's, printed tab, etc, they might not be interested, but for others it would greatly reduce their up-front costs, eliminate their need to manage a virtual store, reduce costs to the buyer, provide an additional small revenue stream for the forum, and saves a few trees (if viewed on ones computer instead of printed) and some plastic... seems logical to me.

JMHO

Doug

[James Quillian]

Doug, That was really well said. Tab and instruction for steel guitar has got to be a super small market. There just aren't enough students to buy the small amount of material that is put out.

with some instruments, so much tab is free online that gettig paid to tab it out is a lost cause, 5 string banjo for example. It is just tough to make a buck with music.

At the risk of making myself unpopular, I will point out that most of these courses include recordings of songs by other songwriters. Those songs carry copyrights, and to use them in a recording the creators of the courses are required by law to pay a royalty to the songwriters. I imagine a few honest musicians pay the songwriters royalty for the music on their course. I also suspect some do not. It is a little disingenuous to whine about the legal sale of second-hand instructional courses if at the same time the material itself is possibly violating someone else's copyright!

As some have pointed out, very little actually turns up used here, particularly of Jeff N's courses. What I have seen is older, typically with cassettes (I did not realize anyone still had cassette players!).

I, like most on the forum, have purchased a fair amount of instructional material. So far, all has been purchased new, and none has been sold.

Personally, I am very surprised that so few have developed online downloads of learning material. I can buy CD's online from CDBaby and be listening to them in 5 minutes, here in the Philippines. But an instructional course from most teachers requires I time the order when I have box of goodies coming my way, and if I am lucky, in 3-4 months I can start learning from it. Perhaps, b0b, you should build an online-downloadable store to sell for the various instructors' material. If they have a 10-year supply of pressed CD's, printed tab, etc, they might not be interested, but for others it would greatly reduce their up-front costs, eliminate their need to manage a virtual store, reduce costs to the buyer, provide an additional small revenue stream for the forum, and saves a few trees (if viewed on ones computer instead of printed) and some plastic... seems logical to me.

JMHO

Doug

[Earl Hensley]

I got Jeffs signature on my Sierra some years ago ( just below Jr. Knight ) and really enjoyed his teaching.

[Mark van Allen]

Douglas, there are "fair use" components to copyright law that make exceptions for educational purposes. I think it would be argued that some instructional courses, while sold for profit, are using excerpts or re-recordings of copyrighted material as valid teaching examples.
http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_a ... 7/7-b.html
The gray area with steel instruction includes the fact that historically many courses (Newman, Emmons Co., Wallace, and others) come as an album of songs that can be enjoyed separately from the (usually tabbed) instructional function. I assume all of these productions paid publishing royalties as would any other non-instructional "cover" recording, if not, they're in violation of copyright law.
Courses using excerpts or portions of previously recorded music would probably fall under fair-use doctrine, unless the "samples" were overly large.

In one of my courses I do a note-for-note dissection of a recorded performance, which is included in the course- but I have written permission from the original copyright holder with his understanding that it's for instructional purposes.

[Leonard Imbery]

...and if the course is used, presumably the fees for included songs have been already paid for as they're paid by "per copy produced" method and you'd only be buying someone's course that they'd paid for originally to the original creator of the course...