New player/Couple of ?'s

Chandler Holt · Post by **Chandler Holt** » 26 Feb 2003 4:57 am

I am 25 & I have been playing the banjo and lap steel for about 6 years in various bands. Pedal steel is something I have dreamed about playing for years. I finally bought a laquer D-10 Mullen & an Evans FET500 amp!!! I am very happy with both of these purchases, especially after playing a Sho-Bud Maverick.
The 1st question I have goes out to the seasoned players: If you could change any of the habits or practice techniques you used starting out, what would it be? (I am moving along pretty good so far. I wonder if I should be much more concerned about tone & block technique, etc.)
The 2nd question is: Do most players set their amp volume so that the volume they use majority of the time is achieved by the volum pedal all the way down or somewhere in the middle?

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 26 Feb 2003 6:41 am

Most important suggestion:
GET A TEACHER. Even if you only meet once or twice a year, a lot of problems can be avoided by having someone watch you play PLUS you can learn a lot by watching someone who has mastered their technique show you what works for them. YES, those little technique issues can waste a lot of time if you don't have someone to keep you on track. There are a BUNCH of steel players in your neck of the woods -- GO SEE THEM!!

JUST A COUPLE OF OTHER TIPS
* Only cover the highest string you're playing with the bar. Your bar should be constantly moving in and out to avoid noise from strings not being played (the BIGGEST challenge of playing steel). If you're playing 8,6,5 the nose of the bar should be over the FIFTH string. If your next note is the 3rd string, move the bar out to cover that string, and back when you go to a lower string.
* Extend the middle finger of the left hand slightly beyond the end of the bar. When you perform the move described above (e.g, going from the THIRD being the highest to the FIFTH and sliding the bar back towards you so that the FIFTH is the highest string covered), you'll get some 'free' blocking. REALIZE THAT NOT ALL BLOCKING IS DONE WITH THE RIGHT HAND. Many beginners work way too hard at blocking.

There's a bunch of other stuff that only a teacher can tell you after seeing what you do well and not so well (notice I DIDN'T say RIGHT OR WRONG). The final arbiter is your ear. If it sounds right and you can play it up to tempo, you're doing something right.

ANSWER TO YOUR SECOND QUESTION
Most players generally play with their pedal between half and 2/3 open, to allow the amp to help the guitar sustain a bit longer. If you use a pot pedal, the tone is not consistent across the throw of the pedal. The lower volume positions tend to lose high end. In that situation (a pot pedal without a matchbox) some players tend to play more toward the wide-open end of the pedal throw.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 26 February 2003 at 06:58 AM.]

Chuck S. Lettes · Post by **Chuck S. Lettes** » 26 Feb 2003 7:37 am

Hello Chandler,
I also play a Mullen through an Evans amp and love the sound. As far as volume, I always have more volume on the amplifier than I need. That way I can use my volume pedal to control the song's dynamics. For example, I play at a softer volume when I am backing up a vocalist or a soloist, but I increase the volume during my fills and solos. This technique varies the volume and avoids a monotonous sound. As far as practicing, I have always suggested using rhythm tracks. You can make your own using a "Band in the Box" program.You might contact Forum member Jim Barron for information about this product. I started out using the fine rhythm tracks put out by Jeff Newman, Herbie Wallace, etc. Practicing with rhythm tracks will help your touch and tone, pitch, and especially your timing, all crucial areas. Welcome to the steel guitar club. Best of luck with this difficult instrument.
Chuck

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 26 Feb 2003 8:03 am

Yes I agree about the amp's volume. Further, it allows you to retain the sustain longer. Some passages span almost the entire neck. This requires one to start at the picked volume (or just below it) and as your bar goes from fret to fret increase the volume ever so much to keep the sustain volume the same to the end of a given musical passage.

This means you need the wide open volume to be much higher than the picked volume.

As to habits, there are some bad habits that can develop early as a new steel player. One of the worst is "bar quiver" when starting to learn vibrato. Like a nervous shake. This should be worked on early because it is extremely difficult to break later on. A vibrato should be very smooth and always in line with the tempo of the music. Amongst other things.

The best way to learn this, is to watch the masters and the pros. Jerry Byrd is IMO, the world's absolute master at this. Buddy and Paul are close seconds. So if you see them, pay particular attention to their vibratos. But there are others too.

The wrist knuckle on the first finger should be the highest part of your hand when learning to pick. Try to avoid keeping the hand and fingers moslty flat. Roll your hand with partially cupped fingers over on its right side and lay it down on the strings with the long crease in your palm in line with the string your are picking. Keep this crease over the top note you are picking throughout. Jeff Newman recommends this and I agree totally.

Try to sit and play in an ever more relaxed fashion. The more relaxed one is, the better everything goes. Being tensed up and rigid tends to work against you. Of course it is accepted that with SOOOOOO much to learn this is dang near impossible, BUT if you think about it often, it will eventually become part of you.

Finally, mount a video camera on a tripod and tape yourself. Be surprised what you will notice and "hear" (sadly in some cases

). Nothing will show it up better than this.

Good luck and may our precious Jesus bless you in your quests,

carl

Chandler Holt · Post by **Chandler Holt** » 26 Feb 2003 10:04 am

Thanks for the replies. This is very helpful information. I would like to hear plenty more. One of my buddies is Greg Redling from Tift Merritt & the Carbines (Lost Highway Records). Does anybody else know if there are any other steel players in the Raleigh-Durham area that teach?

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 26 Feb 2003 1:08 pm

if you go to http://www.onlinesteelers.com/stateslist.cfm?cmnStates=NC
you will see a listing of 36 Nawth Ca'linah steel players.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro

Tim Bridges · Post by **Tim Bridges** » 26 Feb 2003 1:39 pm

Get a teacher! I was introduced to a gentleman that taught me more in one hour than I had learned in quite some time. Bar technique was one of the first things he observed that I needed to improve upon. As Larry suggests above, following the strings your picking with the bar is critical. Volume pedal technique is also critical. Left hand, right hand, guitar maintenance, feet, knees, eyes, ears and hopefully a clear mind. As my teacher told me," you gotta be able to concentrate". Well, that should have been a big hint for me...concentrate. I'm not a professional player, but I am a professional student. I had developed some bad habits that were really keeping me from advancing. These guys have built, redesigned and advanced the pedal steel so much, you need to allow yourself the opportunity to develop good habits. Get a mentor.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 26 Feb 2003 5:12 pm

Get some lessons...yes, that's a good idea. Also, go out and see other steelers whenever you have the chance. By watching different ones, you'll develop a sense of when to play and what works best, as far as styles, chords, licks, as well as tone settings and other equipment. Learn to "work" with the rest of a band. Remember, more often than not, you're just a part of a musical organization, and not a soloist.

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 28 Feb 2003 6:16 am

Not to sound ignorant, but regarding the technique of moving the bar to cover only the strings you're picking -- I've never quite understood what advantage this provides. If you accidentally hit a string, it's still going to ring whether or not it's covered by the bar. However, if it is covered by the bar, at least there's a greater chance it'll be in tune with whatever you happen to be playing

Also, the bar always covers the lower strings even when you're not playing them. In otherwords, according to the technique espoused above, only the higher strings are not covered with the bar when not played -- but the lower strings when not played are still covered with the bar.

So, anyway, I hope the source of my confusion is apparent and maybe somebody can explain the advantages of the technique so I can understand them. Thanks ahead of time

[This message was edited by Tom Olson on 28 February 2003 at 06:17 AM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 28 Feb 2003 6:39 am

If you are palm blocking with the right hand and are picking the lower strings, nothing is
muting them because your hand isn't there. Unless you have a 4-5 inch pinkie.

.
If you rest your outside bar fingers on the strings as recomended, they will be muted just beyond the bar as you pull back, but the bar won't excite the higher strings when It isn't there and you can't palm block them.
I'm not an expert at this, but this is what I understand from several posts. Guys if I am wrong or left something out, I am SURE you will tell me!

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 28 Feb 2003 6:53 am

Tom,
The technique you/I describe has nothing to do with avoiding hitting the wrong string. The only technique that can solve that is repetition. HOWEVER, Play this phrase <pre>
1------------
2------------
3-3----------
4-3--3-------
5-3--3--3----
6----3--3----
7------------
8-------3----
</pre>If your bar remains over the 3rd string for the second chord (4,5,6) you have to block that string with your right hand. If the nose of the bar is over 3rd for the first chord, 4th for the 2nd and 5th for the third, you don't have to block anything to play cleanly. Since you will be re-picking the lower two strings as you descend the only note that really needs to be blocked is the top one. This example is a very simple one, but the technique applies to chords and single note passages alike. It WILL clean up your playing and allow you to play faster as well, since it's removing some of the burden from your picking hand. I never block a note I don't have to.

And, no, the bar DOES NOT have to always cover the lower strings. Any 12- or particularly 14- string player will tell you that you gotta angle the bar slightly up at the back end to avoid playing cello solos while you're trying to play something on the higher strings. Particularly for single string passages, but
it will also work for two or even three note grips.

All I can tell you is that this is a technique I've seen applied by virtually EVERY great player I've watched. Emmons, Day, Hughey, et al, they ALL do it. That, in and of itself, is not a reason to do it, but is certainly a reason to investigate how it might help your playing. I did and IT DID.

Good luck.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 28 Feb 2003 8:45 am

Moving the nose of the bar off of high strings not being picked as Larry describes is especially important after picking strings 1 and 2, which are not part of the open chord tuning and will create dissonance if sustained too long (okay, all rules are made to be broken and sometimes you want the dissonance to ring through - but the point is you should be in control of it).

I'm not really a "seasoned" player and am still learning, but for me mastering volume pedal technique has been one of the hardest and slowest processes. If you watch good players you will see that they are always slightly pumping the volume pedal, especially on long notes and slow songs. They have developed the amazing ability to unconsciously increase the volume exactly to match the string die-off to get a steady liquid tone. This is even more amazing because this is not a constant relationship. The volume pedal has to be increased more rapidly high up the neck where natural string sustain is shorter. Most players seem to attack notes with their pedal only about 1/4 to 1/3 on, so they have plenty of room for sustain. A really tricky part is to always come back to that same spot for the next note. And for fast picking, it will all mostly be done at that spot.

It is very difficult for beginners to always play at the right spot on the volume pedal. Using right knee levers also complicates this. I find that playing quietly for myself at home does not help me when it comes to playing out with a loud group. The volume pedal does not have the same feel. Cranking up your stereo and playing along to CDs can help, and this can be done through ear phones.

In order for that attack spot to be at approximately the same spot, in a small quiet room your amp volume may be around 10 or 11 o'clock. In a large loud room it might be all the way up. It will always be way higher than where it would be if you were playing straigt into it without a volume pedal. That is why you need a 200 watt amp to play along with six stringers playing through 30 to 50 watt amps.

Just some observations. Unfortunately, I can talk it better than I can play it.

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Student of the Steel, and cheap instrument connoisseur: customized 1970 Sho-Bud Maverick, Fessy S12U, Emmons S12 E9 P/P, Nashville 400, Fender Squire, Peavey Transtube Supreme into JBL 15", 1968 Gibson J50, '60s Kay arch-top, 7-string Raybro, customized Korean Regal square-neck, roundneck Dobro 90C, 1938 Conn Chu Berry tenor sax, '50s Berg mouthpiece, Hamilton upright piano. You make it, I'll play it (more or less)

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 28 Feb 2003 8:57 am

If I were starting out right now, I would:

a) use three finger picks

b) learn to read music on steel fluently

c) get Joe Wright's "Technique Bundle" of right hand exercises and do some of them for 15 minutes every day without fail

d) go to as many steel shows as I could get to

e) send uncle b0b a nice donation and read this Forum every day.

Hans Holzherr · Post by **Hans Holzherr** » 28 Feb 2003 12:49 pm

My recos:
1) Don't look at your right hand when playing. Look where the bar is. Look at the strings you intend to pick.
2) Learn to move the bar from one fret to an ajacent or a more distant one in a small fraction of a second. For instance, practice this on a slow chromatic scale up or down the neck, and only block the string(s) during that superfast bar move, just before picking the next note, so that the notes will connect to each other, and no pause between them is noticable. This is as hard as it is important.

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 2 Mar 2003 8:38 am

Thanks for the replies to my question above -- I think I at least understand the theory of it a lot better now.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 2 Mar 2003 3:13 pm

Jim. where can I get the Joe Wright bundle?

Post by **Joey Ace** » 2 Mar 2003 3:26 pm

Joe Wright's stuff is available at http://www.pedalsteel.com/

Dr. Hugh Jeffreys · Post by **Dr. Hugh Jeffreys** » 2 Mar 2003 5:08 pm

I have written much about this aspect--too much to go into here. However, first, to save agony later on: try to keep both feet flat on the floor (I don't use a vol. pedal); try to keep your head/neck in a straight ahead position, using a downward gaze to view the steel; keep forearms and wrists level with the back of your hands. If you don't, you'll probably notice back and neck discomfort on down the line. When you say "blocking" I think you mean "stop string sound??" I use fingers on my right hand and sometimes left hand. Using the palm is wasted motion and will slow you down in the long run. If you learn to read music, you'll have to keep your head straight aheadanyway.Don't just learn to "read music," anyone can do that: Learn to SIGHT READ--there's a big difference! Good luck, Hugh www.steelguitarbyhughjeffreys.com

Chandler Holt · Post by **Chandler Holt** » 3 Mar 2003 10:31 am

Great stuff guys! All of this is good info. I need to decide which will work best for me.
I have already noticed a lot of back & neck tension. This advice from the Dr. will hopefully help out.
Has anybody else used the "Technique Bundle"?

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 3 Mar 2003 10:46 am

Chandler,

With all due respect, ignore whatever answer you get to that last question. We are a lazy lot, myself included. That's why we stuck pedals on our guitars in the first place, so that we wouldn't have to waste energy slanting the bar. Every 4-year old piano student, every 3-year old beginning violin student, every student of darn near every instrument on the planet (except ours) knows from time-immemorial that ya gotta do finger exercises to build facility and competence. It sounds terrible for the first year or so (especially on a scratchy violin!) but ya just gotta go through that if you want to be able to play Bach, Corelli, Zappa, or whatever.

Enter the pedal steel player, armed with a truckload of "tablature" that tells him which pedals to mash and which strings to pick and half of us still can't name the strings or tell what the pedals do. It's magic! The typical pedal steel player (and I was one myself for far too long, and now I even sell tablature, so I'm not claiming any higher moral ground here) doesn't want to be bothered with all these "finger exercises". It's too boring. Besides, all ya really gotta do is play that tab over and over again and pretty soon you'll sound exactly like Buddy Emmons and even your wife will agree.

For the above reasons, I'm betting that the "Technique Bundle" is not a 'best-seller'. But it ought to be. Joe Wright is only person I know who has systematically done for steel guitar what was done centuries ago for every other instrument. (Hey, we're catching up!) But ya gotta buy a copy...

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 4 Mar 2003 9:42 am

Gee... I didn't mean to quash the whole thread! Where did everybody go? C'mon back and talk to Teddy Bear!

Chandler Holt · Post by **Chandler Holt** » 4 Mar 2003 1:49 pm

Good stuff Jim. I printed Buddy's tab for Greensleeves. I thought I was a prodigy for a couple of weeks of messing with that. As it turns out, I was pickin' with my buddy the other day and, I SUCK! I've decided to now totally concentrate on my posture, overall tone, & mechanics. The other things will come with time. thanks!

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 4 Mar 2003 4:31 pm

Jim Cohen -- I'm a beginner and I'm totally serious in asking this question: where can I get some tablature or detailed explanation of the finger-excercises you mention above? Thanks,

Tom

Steve Feldman · Post by **Steve Feldman** » 4 Mar 2003 6:05 pm

A lot of good advice here. One thing I would do if I were in your shoes would be to get myself up to see Buddy Charleton outside of Fredericksburg, VA. If you haven't heard of him, you need to - and you will if you stay with the PSG. Not only is he one of the best, but he's a terrific teacher and a heckuva nice guy.

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 4 Mar 2003 7:31 pm

where can I get some tablature or detailed explanation of the finger-excercises

From Joe Wright's web site here:
http://www.pedalsteel.com/joe/index.html