Day vs Emmons old argument for new people

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 4 Mar 2003 12:06 pm

What are the strengths and weaknesses of each.
If you use one, Why?
If you modified the copedant Why?

I am sure this was beaten into the ground several times over before I came on the scene... but I am sure it also has seen some revisions in some quarters since the last time.
I will glad look at anyones copedant e-mailed to me if you don't want to post it here.
Thanks and happy wrangling

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 4 Mar 2003 12:49 pm

.[This message was edited by C Dixon on 04 March 2003 at 12:52 PM.]

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 4 Mar 2003 1:03 pm

Just a suggestion, why don't you do a search and read all the previous threads on this subject, then ask any questions you may have.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 4 Mar 2003 6:16 pm

There are no real strengths or weaknesses, since they are exactiy the same changes, only "reversed". That said, I like the "Day" setup because the two "home" pedals (A&B) are a little closer to the center of the guitar with that setup.

Glenn Austin · Post by **Glenn Austin** » 4 Mar 2003 6:43 pm

It all depends on how your ankle likes to be bent. I tried the Day setup for a month and didn't like it, or rather my left foot didn't like. "My Left Foot " is quite a good film BTW. David, Which side of the road do you drive on in France? Just curious. And did you get that Sho Bud yet? I nearly bought it.[This message was edited by Glenn Austin on 04 March 2003 at 06:45 PM.][This message was edited by Glenn Austin on 04 March 2003 at 06:55 PM.]

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 4 Mar 2003 8:25 pm

I've heard that in France, they drive on BOTH sides of the road

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 4 Mar 2003 11:55 pm

and Pedestrians don't stand a chance of gettin' to the other side

Salut Glenn

David s'est trouvé une bonne Bud Pro II
il en avait tellement besoin !

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Steel what?

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 5 Mar 2003 12:33 am

Yes I have been looking at old posts.

It's only the British that drive on the left officially. But strangly enough ~I play in a band with 2 guys who drive right hand drive cars... and we ain't in England. They are both Welsh and they both drive real slow. In the US I had a mail van so I can drive right hand too.
In my neck of France if you drive under 100k in a 90k zone your a traffic hazzard, They will pass into oncoming traffic if you do that.
Add to that people passing in your lane coming the other way truely seem to feel it's your look out to get out of their way.

So they drive on both sides IF there is oncoming traffic or a Deux Chevaux, "two horses" meaning 14 HP US, the french VW bug, is in front of them. Bunch a nutters driving sideways.

My Left Foot was great, but no PSG in the score. "My" left foot is sprained so often I really am wondering how to set up the pedals. I guess Emmons but with A real low.
I am still trying to figure when I would use pedal B and LKR (E raise) together. B and LKL (E lower) would be real hard. AB + LKL no problem.

I am thinking of having RKL #2 as a minor7b5 chord; up or down a fret and hit that lever for that passing chord. Comments?

Also pedal D isn't hooked up to E9 I guess Buddy's Bb's there. But if there was some cool thing for CD together and rocking CD to C I would do that. Suggestions?

Glenn, I own the steel and big "merci Patrick" for a "Steel of a Deel". I am very, very happy. And happy there wasn't a bidding war too!

Tommy Cass is doing a changer mainatainance right now and packing it for shipping here. He says it is a fine unit with a few minor problems he will take care of. The price was such I can afford to have him tweak it and then import it, what with 19.5% tax on it and it's shipping cost here.
I expect to have it 20 years. Maybe in 5 years get some really tricked up hybrid unit, but keep this one. It should record really well. I wanted 'The sound"!

Since Tommy has it apart, now's the time to set it up. I have a long week to think of what copedant changes to Buddys currant posted set up I would want. But it's real hard without the steel in my hands.
I have been working on a U-12 Zum, but pedals CD aren't there! It goes AB EFG So I was doing something from Fred Laymans book and thought I was going mad till Stephane told me what wasn't where it should be.

On C6 why is it called the BooWah pedal? Great name.
I am debating reversing the C6 pedal order. Pros Cons? (con Is a very bad word in french)
Also I am debating putting RKL #2 on C6 also, the minor7b5 E9 pedal, I think I could also use it as a LKL on C6. But what notes? More comments

If I left it the minor7b5 change, I might want another LKL for C6 but more centered.
I suppose I can add that later.
Good morning Crowbear comment ça vas?[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 05 March 2003 at 01:05 AM.]

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 5 Mar 2003 5:53 am

David, I don't know how many knees you have, but get Tommy to put Buddy's copedant on your guitar. Get the changes for the "E's" for sure, and your second string lower with the ninth lower. I lower my fifth and tenth string with a vertical on my left knee. lower your sixth and raise your first on one knee,and anything else is candy. If Tommy puts everything like Buddy's, I believe it will be the most comfortable for you to play. Just my humble thoughts. My C6th neck is fairly standard. I do raise and lower my third and fourth strings, plus the regular changes.

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1985 Emmons push-pull, Nashville400, 65 re-issue Fender Twin, Fender Tele

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 5 Mar 2003 9:18 am

Yes Craig it will be the "basic Buddy" he has on his official site.
But I have 6 levers and DAY ankles plus I want some jazz chords available quickly. So I am thinking of what I can do to add "candy" tools to an Emmons set up. And make it work physicaly the most comfortably and quickly for me.

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 5 Mar 2003 9:40 am

If you use the Day set-up it makes a difference where your "E" changes are regarding how you have to work them with that set-up.

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1985 Emmons push-pull, Nashville400, 65 re-issue Fender Twin, Fender Tele

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 5 Mar 2003 10:29 am

Craig,

For most players you are correct about the knee levers. But strangely, there ARE some players who have the Day pedal setup and the Emmons knee lever set up. And vice versa.

Go figger

carl

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 5 Mar 2003 11:02 am

It always seemed to me that it would be very hard on the ankle to do that. For example, C B A pedals with the F lever on LKL - the A+F combination would be pretty awkward.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 5 Mar 2003 11:55 am

I Had Emmons pedals and Day Knees on my MSA for 20+ years... A B C E=lkl F=lkr.
It was awkward, but for years I didn't know any better, and by the time I did I was too used to it to want to change...
until I went Universal and changed it to . F=LKL Eb=RKL

On my ZB I have Emmons pedals & knees for E9 A B C F=LKL Eb= LKR

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 5 Mar 2003 1:47 pm

I need things a simple as possible. I sometimes have trouble walking and chewing gum at the same time.

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1985 Emmons push-pull, Nashville400, 65 re-issue Fender Twin, Fender Tele

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 5 Mar 2003 3:15 pm

To me the main thing is the position of the F lever. If your F is on the left knee, it will be most comfortable on the same side as your A pedal.

There are 3 major chord positions: no pedals, A+F and A+B. All three need to be very easy to get to. Putting the F lever on the same side as the A pedal accomplishes that. That's why most players set up their guitars that way.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 5 Mar 2003 3:23 pm

...(Dave)...until I went Universal and changed it to . F=LKL Eb=RKL...

My D-10 set-up, plus my C6 neck is in B6! Maybe I sould be thinking about a Universal...I should be able to buy one at noon and be ready to play that night! www.genejones.com [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 05 March 2003 at 03:25 PM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 5 Mar 2003 3:35 pm

I am thinking to have the F LKR and Eb LKL.
But does that cause some problem with using the F in commons situations. I seem to find that implied in b0b's post.
I very much have a Day ankle. I think I could more confortably rock AB with F LKR on an Emmons set up.
Plus I think I want to use F with some thing on C and D And that would work better also.
Besides the logic of down the neck flat and up the neck sharp.
Is this an Emmons with day levers?
Am I asking for trouble?

Richard Gonzales · Post by **Richard Gonzales** » 6 Mar 2003 6:29 am

David- After a couple of years experimenting,
I feel most comfortable with the DAY setup raising your F's on LKR and on RKR I lower the 2nd string to D and lower the E's. RKL I lower the 2nd string to Db and raise the 9th string B to a D. This combo work very nicely for me on my S12.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 6 Mar 2003 6:59 am

I have been in C6 mode today and now I think I need to add levers 7 & 8 for C6
LKL 4 Ab and LKR 4 Bb, but centered for C6 pedals. Should I consider 8 Ab & 8 Bb also on the levers??

Plus I want something yet to be determined on RKL#2, if I have RKL #1 moved a bit frontwards.
Suggestions?
This based on Buddys presently posted copedant on his official website