15/16 vs 7/8 tone bar

Karen Sarkisian · Post by **Karen Sarkisian** » 13 Mar 2013 9:17 am

I tried a 15/16 Zirc bar at the dallas show and really liked it. any downside of 15/16 over 7/8 ? my current bar is 7/8 BJS and I am hesitant to make the switch as the Zirc bars are costly. Butch is apparently out of Hughey bars which would be of equivalent size and weight to the Zirc bar. My hands are not huge so maybe sticking with 7/8 is better ? Opinions appreciated, thanks !

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 13 Mar 2013 9:25 am

karen..somewhere along the way i acquired a dekley i" bar. stainless i imagine. i started using it regularly many years ago and find i have trouble going back to my 7/8 bars except for practice at home which i don't take seriously. if it's not way too big for you, i would think you'd grow to love the 15/16...maybe a slightly cheaper stainless steel model. something about the mass and weight is addictive and tone inspiring. i'd like to try the 15/16 also and would if it fell in my lap (ouch)

Doug Earnest · Post by **Doug Earnest** » 13 Mar 2013 9:34 am

I bought a 1" BJS and liked what it did for the tone. Later on I got a 15/16" BJS and love everything about it. Wait until Butch gets some 15/16" made up.

Karen Sarkisian · Post by **Karen Sarkisian** » 13 Mar 2013 9:39 am

Doug Earnest wrote:I bought a 1" BJS and liked what it did for the tone. Later on I got a 15/16" BJS and love everything about it. Wait until Butch gets some 15/16" made up.

Butch told me it would be a while unfortunately

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 13 Mar 2013 11:43 am

Karen I switched from a 7/8" to a 15/16th Hughey lite several years ago, I don't have big hands either but I found the larger diameter bar gave me better control - and as you point out the weight is the same so it was more the better control it gave me.
This is a very personal thing of course but if you thought the larger Zirc felt better, then try the BJS.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 13 Mar 2013 12:52 pm

My two favorite bars are the 15/16" BJS John Hughey bar and the 15/16" Zirc bar. And I don't have big hands either.

Steve English · Post by **Steve English** » 13 Mar 2013 1:49 pm

I also prefer 15/16 and would recommend the Bullet Bar:
http://www.bulletbars.com/ as another option.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 13 Mar 2013 1:53 pm

A 7/8ths bar is faster.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 13 Mar 2013 2:10 pm

I have bars from one-half inch up to one and one-quarter inches, but normally play with a 7/8" Sho~Bud bar. As Kevin said, a heavier bar will slow you down a little on the fast moves. I've been unable to hear any appreciable difference using a larger bar on any steel but my Fender, where it does seem to help the sustain a little.. One other drawback of larger bars is that they obscure more of the frets up in "Hugheyland", and that makes them harder for some players to use and play in-tune.

Despite all the hype and the differences that players say they hear when using different bars, almost no player can listen to someone else and tell which size, type, or brand they are using.

Something to think about, anyway.

mike nolan · Post by **mike nolan** » 13 Mar 2013 6:47 pm

I use a lot of different bars.... BJS, Black Zirc, White Zirc, Stainless, etc. 7/8, 15/16, and 1". The different sizes/weights have different feels. I don't have issues switching among different bars.... 2 minutes of adjust time. Get a bunch of different ones and trade in and out when the spirit moves you.... I think that it helps your playing to be able to adapt to different situations.

Karen Sarkisian · Post by **Karen Sarkisian** » 13 Mar 2013 7:08 pm

Thanks for all the replies I think I will order a zirc bar as bjs won't be available for a while.

Dennis Saydak · Post by **Dennis Saydak** » 13 Mar 2013 7:28 pm

Karen I used a 7/8" steel bar for several years and really liked it. Then I bought a 15/16" Zirc bar. It is extremely easy to handle and very smooth on the strings. You have to experience it to believe it IMHO. It's my favourite bar without question. Also, I don't have big hands.

john widgren · Post by **john widgren** » 13 Mar 2013 8:46 pm

Karen,

A 15/16 zirc bar will probably weigh close to a 7/8 steel bar, so that won't be much of a factor, and you may like the little extra dia.

I have many many (many) bars, but I always come back to a 7/8 diameter bar.

My all time faves are two vintage 60's Emmons bars.

john widgren · Post by **john widgren** » 13 Mar 2013 8:48 pm

PS: Collecting bars is cheaper than collecting steel guitars....Yay!

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 13 Mar 2013 9:27 pm

The physical density of the zirc bars is noticeably lower than the BJS bars. My 3-1/2" x 15/16" Zirc is actually lighter than my 3-3/8" x 7/8" BJS bar. Weights of various size BJS and Zirc bars I own - sizes measured on a pretty accurate vernier caliper, weights on a gram scale:

White Zirc 3-3/8" x 7/8" - 190 grams
BJS 3-3/8" x 7/8" - 238 grams (actually measures 3-13/32" on the caliper)

Black Zirc 3-1/2" x 15/16" - 224 and 226 grams (I have two)
BJS - 3-5/8" x 15/16" - 291 grams

Personally, I strongly prefer the larger bars for pedal steel, but I am tall and have large hands. I prefer both the extra diameter and extra length, it's just more comfortable for me.

I think both Zirc and BJS are great bars, I mean really great. They are as smooth as silk, and just feel better than anything I've touched. I find them slightly different tonally, I guess I prefer Zirc for some things, and BJS for others. The Zirc smooths the sound out a bit when I'm pushing an amp, but still has great sustain and feel. I guess my take is that the BJS is just a bit glassier tonally, at least in my application. I wouldn't want to live without both, and carry one of each of the 15/16" bars to gigs.

Brendan Mitchell · Post by **Brendan Mitchell** » 13 Mar 2013 10:38 pm

mike nolan wrote:I use a lot of different bars.... BJS, Black Zirc, White Zirc, Stainless, etc. 7/8, 15/16, and 1". The different sizes/weights have different feels. I don't have issues switching among different bars.... 2 minutes of adjust time. Get a bunch of different ones and trade in and out when the spirit moves you.... I think that it helps your playing to be able to adapt to different situations.

^this
Too many people get hung up on having the "right" thing . It could be picks , bar ,you name it even the right shoes ! Get used to playing with different gear and when you have to "improvise" you won't get in a panic .
just my tuppence worth .

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 14 Mar 2013 12:38 am

Karen, asking what size is better is like asking what color is better. It's entirely subjective. Whatever size is better is the size you prefer. I use a 1 inch bar, but that doesn't mean you should. I have a BJS and a zirc. They're both in my paca-seat, and I use whichever one I feel like at the time.

I feel that the John Pearse "frozen" bar is every bit as good as the BJS and zirc bars. Maybe even better. The only reason I don't play with one is that they don't make one long enough to suit me. (I play a U-12.) I suggest that you add one of these to your collection. You won't regret it.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 14 Mar 2013 4:13 am

Karen Sarkisian wrote:I tried a 15/16 Zirc bar at the dallas show and really liked it. any downside of 15/16 over 7/8 ?

In my experience, there is no downside.....no advantage either. It's just different. I used a 15/16" for a while in the early 00's. I found no difference in the comfort or tone of the larger size, so I sold it and am quite happy with the several designs of 7/8" bars I've been using for 30+ yrs.

Only way for you to tell is try it. It might be the bomb for you....or not.

Gordon Hartin · Post by **Gordon Hartin** » 14 Mar 2013 4:27 am

I find that it is easier for me to lift a larger bar 15/16 or 1 inch than a 7/8 bar. I have a BJS of each.

If you are looking to try a larger bar, but don't want to drop the big bucks, try a poloma stone slide http://www.stoneslides.com/home They are very light fun to try out and only about $25 after shipping. I like to use one on bluesy numbers...

Gordon

Lana Carroll · Post by **Lana Carroll** » 14 Mar 2013 8:22 am

Lots of good responses so I will just add - I have small hands myself and still prefer the 15/16 over the 7/8.

I like my BJS 15/16 bar a lot better than any of the 7/8 and 1" ones I have tried, but I have yet to try a zirc bar.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 14 Mar 2013 8:42 am

One thing I like about the zirc bar, especially up here on the Tundra, is that it feels warmer to the hand when you pick it up.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 14 Mar 2013 10:13 am

PS: Collecting bars is cheaper than collecting steel guitars....Yay!

If I had to pick a "Desert Island Bar" - well, I just wouldn't go, that's all.

The ones I seem to use the most (this week) are:

1" X 3.375" stainless bar, hollowed out to 5.5 oz;
1.25" X 3.75" leaded crystal bar - 5.5 oz;
1.25" X 3.75" delrin bar - 4.25 oz.

To me, the most important things are:

sound including sustain:
ease of handling (pick up tail for "penciling", pick up bar entirely);
length - If you get interested in pursuing the nearly-infinite number of forward and backward slants on a 10-string C6th - all those interlocking "W" and "Z" and "L" shapes - you need at least one really long bar just to be able to hear them.

Among electric guitarists and pedal steel players, the quality of "sustain" seems to trump everything else flying under the "sound" or "tone" banner. If a steel guitar sustains for a really long time, it's a good one; if a steel guitar sustains for a really, really long time we know it's great one! And the 12 oz behemoth bars rule the roost.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DoKX-ObX5g

How'd he DO that?

(I like decay, too)

Steve Pawlak · Post by **Steve Pawlak** » 14 Mar 2013 10:24 am

I think you've got it all covered there David
I had a slide player in my band that would use a plastic pill bottle or Bic lighter in a pinch

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 14 Mar 2013 11:04 am

I've narrowed my preferences down to a BJS 15/16, a zirc 15/16 and a hollowed out (came that way) Dunlop chrome bar. As mentioned above the zirc is warmer on a cold day and a bit lighter. The big advantage of the Dunlop is that it has a super mellow tone.

It also occurs to me that the 15/16 bar might have a small bit wider contact area with the strings due to its increased circumference over the 7/8" bar. I think the heavier bars have more sustain and the 15/16 bars have a less shrill sound above the 12th fret. Urban steel legends????????

Greg

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