my first *real* (and last) purchase of a PSG. Please advise.

Teddy Ray Bullard II · Post by **Teddy Ray Bullard II** » 8 Mar 2013 2:25 pm

I had a GFI S-10. Deployed and had to sell it(couldnt take it to the box!)

. I am still hurting to learn and get proficient on, the instrument, as it is a lifelong dream.

In the next while I will be buying the instrument that I will keep as my companion for life.

so I want to get the advice of the experts. If you were in a "buy once, buy right" type situation, what would you get in terms of reliability, ruggedness, reputation, etc? I am obviously getting a s-10 this time around, (will get a d later down the line when ive got the fundamentals)

I am not sure of my budget yet. I am thinking somewhere around 2,000 or maybe 2500 with a maximum of 27 or so... but it is really important to me that i get a good instrument, with a good reputation , one that can stand up to the rigors of travel, (I do a lot with my govt job) and my big clumsy hands. I really want to do this thing right. Please advise! there are so many makes and models with every seller saying that his or hers is the best... I am wanting to buy new, but am all for buying used if that will get me a quality piece. I do NOT want a beginner model. just dont. yall, help an ignorant grunt. !!

Roger Kelly · Post by **Roger Kelly** » 8 Mar 2013 3:17 pm

Here is a steel guitar Model that I believe will fill your bill......I play a Mullen Royal Precision and can tell you Mullen are great guitars.

http://www.mullenguitars.com/discovery.htm

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 8 Mar 2013 3:26 pm

I would buy something that's in current production. There are some very well built guitars out there.

You could not possibly go wrong with Mullen or ZumSteel guitars. History, quality and consistency. Assuming proper care and treatment, any model from either builder will still be going strong years from when you buy it.

Big dislaimer: I am certainly not an expert, BTW. Just 35 yrs. of plugging along

Howard Steinberg · Post by **Howard Steinberg** » 8 Mar 2013 3:42 pm

I think it's pretty difficult to buy a "forever" steel until you've learned to play well enough to appreciate how the instrument feels and sounds to you, enabling you to know what you want/need. That said, some considerations should be the height of the guitar and whether you need something a bit taller than standard (easy to accomplish) or lower than standard (not so easy to accomplish). Another consideration is weight. If you are going to be carrying it you may want to look at some of the lighter weight guitars. I don't think that there is a particularly bad steel made today. I agree with Jerry that a steel that is still being made is a good idea. Other things to think about is how you want the pedals and levers set up. A guitar that is properly adjusted with levers in a comfortable position, for you, is critical in order that your focus can be on playing as opposed to fighting with a difficult guitar. It can be overwhelming but the rewards are amazing. Good luck with your endeavor.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 8 Mar 2013 3:48 pm

First, the bad news: The first three makers to hit my brain don't seem to make S-10 guitars (Mullen, Zum and MSA), only SD-10, and all above your range.
OOPS!! I forgot about the Mullen Discovery, and their website layout excludes it from the pricing list (Mike Mantey, you might want to look at that: the pricing page should include them, or at least a link to them). $2195
Fred Justice makes a fine guitar that's in your range: actually 2 models.
The Zum-designed Encore fits your budget with a grand to spare.
I think the ETS, the latest guitar designed by Bud Carter, fits your range. (just googled. $2050).

Of the guitars I just looked up for you (when I should be sleeping, but I can't sleep right now, so you gave me something to do), I'd say you can't miss with any of them. Really. They're all top notch axes.
Jerry Fessenden doesn't list prices on his website, but I suspect he'd be a little north of your range (but ask him)
Of course used, you can get damn near anything but a Franklin or Fulawka in your price range.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 8 Mar 2013 3:49 pm

A rare Franklin find would certainly be a keeper also, but as Howard states, it has to fit your requirements.

Larry Baker · Post by **Larry Baker** » 8 Mar 2013 5:16 pm

What Roger said. Mullen is as good as they come. The Discovery is light weight to travel with, and Pro guitar all the way. You can't go wrong with a Mullen. Good luck, Larry

P.S. thanks for serving our Country

Asa Brosius · Post by **Asa Brosius** » 8 Mar 2013 8:09 pm

i would jump on that Promat in the for sale section- amazing value.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 8 Mar 2013 8:12 pm

Other than his explicit desire for a single neck, I'd agree, Asa.

Brett Day · Post by **Brett Day** » 8 Mar 2013 8:56 pm

Jackson BlackJack Customs are also great singleneck guitars-great for any player, not a beginner's guitar-it's a professional guitar for a player at any level

Brett

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 9 Mar 2013 4:24 am

Human nature being what it is, everybody here is going to tell you to buy the brand they prefer. The truth is though that EVERYBODY makes excellent steels these days, and you will get a quality instrument no matter brand what you buy.

So, there are other things you need to look for. You should avoid any guitars with less than 4 knee levers, and there are a lot of them out there.

You want a guitar with a minimum of 10 strings, (12 are better if you want to play rock,) 3 pedals, and 4 or 5 knee levers. And you want the changer to have either split screws or 3 raises. (You don't need both.)

And finally, You want the guitar to be able to add 1 or 2 more pedals at some point in the future.

Personally, I would avoid any guitar with a fixed copedant. But there are a lot of those out there too, and many people are quite happy with some of them.

Ransom Beers · Post by **Ransom Beers** » 9 Mar 2013 7:03 am

Doug also makes a semi-pro model.Ask him about it.
Click on the "Links" tab at the top of this page.

Bob Knight · Post by **Bob Knight** » 9 Mar 2013 7:10 am

Teddy Ray Bullard II · Post by **Teddy Ray Bullard II** » 9 Mar 2013 8:01 am

thank you for all the info!

the feeback on mullen has been really great. the justice and ZUM has been great too! so much to wade through!!

and forgive my ignorance, but what is the difference in S and SD??

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 9 Mar 2013 8:06 am

SD means single neck on a double neck body, typically with the rear neck padded.
Typically costs quite a bit more, because you have more cabinet and bigger endplates. And a bit heavier.

Asa Brosius · Post by **Asa Brosius** » 9 Mar 2013 8:13 am

just another word- if you think a d10 may even possibly be in your future, as you've mentioned, grab that Promat. It really does make sense to get the most /best guitar you can afford, rather than 'work your way up.' I doubt we'll see anything like a promat in that price range again.

Teddy Ray Bullard II · Post by **Teddy Ray Bullard II** » 9 Mar 2013 1:22 pm

Lane Gray wrote:SD means single neck on a double neck body, typically with the rear neck padded.
Typically costs quite a bit more, because you have more cabinet and bigger endplates. And a bit heavier.

what is the advantage? comfort? forgive me, im ignorant I know!

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 9 Mar 2013 2:15 pm

Teddy Ray Bullard II wrote:
Lane Gray wrote:SD means single neck on a double neck body, typically with the rear neck padded.
Typically costs quite a bit more, because you have more cabinet and bigger endplates. And a bit heavier.
what is the advantage? comfort? forgive me, im ignorant I know!

In my opinion, there is no advantage or disadvantage either way. It's a matter of personal preference. A lot of great music has been played on guitars with and without pads.

I had a guitar with a pad for a while. (Unfortunately it was stolen in 1985 or 6, along with a Peavey LTD 400 and a suitcase full of effects.) It was nice and I liked it, but I felt it was not significantly better or different from my regular pad-less single neck, and didn't make any difference in my playing. (And it weighed a lot more.)

I want to talk about this business of a fixed copedant. Sooner or later, you will want to do some experimenting. You might want to put your E raises and lowers on a different knee, or one on each knee, or add a Franklin pedal or some other optional change.

If you have a guitar with a fixed copedant, you won't be able to do that. I believe (possibly incorrectly) that the Stage 1 is like that. Now I'm not knocking the guitar. Everybody says they're great. But I think being able to change the copedant is important feature, and I would not recommend any guitar on which that cannot be done.

Another feature that you will want to use at some future point is tunable splits. This is when you raise and lower a string at the same time, to get an intermittent note. For example, raising the 5th string from B to C# with the A pedal, while also using the knee lever that lowers the string to Bb, to get the note C. This not can only be tuned with a split. Otherwise it's out of tune.

There are 2 different ways to get this. One is for the guitar to have an extra raise in the changer, and the other is to have a feature called split screws. So, as I said earlier, you want a guitar that either has a triple raise changer, or the screws. Having both is redundant.

It will be a long time before you use splits, but once you've learned enough to use them, you want to have an instrument that will accommodate them.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 9 Mar 2013 2:58 pm

Mike's basically correct. Some people feel weird sitting behind a single 10, as if "there's no there there." Some like the pad, some like having a place to put the picks, bars and beers.
Some with heavily loaded up guitars would want the double frame just to keep levers out of the way of pulls (it becomes a challenge fitting everything under there, look at some of Darvin Wilhoite's guitars: he fits 10&7 on an S-12, but he makes his own parts and is a twisted genius).
My next guitar will be SD-12 or similar, as it'll be extravagantly loaded, and I don't want to work that hard if I tinker on it later.
If the slender body suits you, the S-10 proves a LOT easier on the back, if you only play the one neck.

Teddy Ray Bullard II · Post by **Teddy Ray Bullard II** » 9 Mar 2013 6:24 pm

ok..so it looks as if used will be the way to go. now given that i can get a lot more bang for the buck that way, are the suggestions for Mullen and Zum still good?

i can push to 3k if need be. but not more.

the GFI was very nice, but it had more of a "treble" sounding tonality, a brighter sound, when i like things a bit rounder/warmer
(this is from hearing my teacher play..obviously i cant play)

another reason im asking about the one time purchase is because for an indeterminate amount of time, starting shortly, i am going to be working in isolation, away from civilization so to speak, any modern amenities, and as such i want something that is going to be great. im going to get a lot of strings, DVDs, books, records to hole up with me..

i really dont want any limits such as fixed copendent, want something that down the road i wont ever have to upgrade (if I go bankrupt, have to use money elsewhere, etc)

great info so far. great, great forum.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 9 Mar 2013 7:23 pm

If your budget goes to nearly 3 and you only want a single neck, I'd suggest either the Encore, the Mullen Discovery, or one of the Justices new. That spends around 2K or less. That leaves a grand for either a Sarno Black Box and a used Peavey (I like Session 400/LTD myself) or finding a good deal on a used Twin.
The amp is HUGELY important in tone.

Brandon Halsey · Post by **Brandon Halsey** » 11 Mar 2013 5:33 am

I'm a new player and went through the same process you are going through about 3 months ago. I own a Derby D-10 which I love, but wanted a SD-10 to lug around to band practice and jam sessions. I tried many different brands of steels (Emmons, Zum, Mullen, etc.) Zum is probably the best right now in my opinion. However, I ended up with a Mullen Royal Precision SD-10 that I picked up brand new for about $3k.

So, the new Mullen is in your price range. I have had mine for about a month now and I love it. Very simple to make changes and to maintain. Sounds good and plays even better. Pedal action is super easy. You will like it.

Mike Mantey · Post by **Mike Mantey** » 11 Mar 2013 7:42 am

Thank You Lane for the suggestion. Added a link.

Can't go wrong with a Mullen.

Even am building a brand new SD-10 Royal Precision right now. Black Mica. Should be done in a couple hours.

Lee Dassow · Post by **Lee Dassow** » 14 Mar 2013 12:23 pm

Teddy, BMI"S are worth looking at, and in your price range. You can get an S-10 Without the weight of a double body. Tennessee LEE

Josh Yenne · Post by **Josh Yenne** » 14 Mar 2013 4:59 pm

yea almost anything modern will be well built... although there is never a "forever" guitar.. but if you buy something quality it is easy to sell and move into something else.

there are TONS of good quality used steels that come for sale on this board.

I have had an S10 and an SD10.. I really prefer the SD10 cause I actually prefer a little more weight keeping my guitar steady.

The Steel Guitar Forum

my first real (and last) purchase of a PSG. Please advise.

my first real (and last) purchase of a PSG. Please advise.

My first real and last purchase of a steel guitar