Number Fret or Key Fret ???

Bill Myrick · Post by **Bill Myrick** » 5 Feb 2003 2:02 pm

I wonder if I'm the only odd duck out there in my approach to the frets on the E neck ? For example---the only instrament I played before buying my first steel was simple rythm guitar so the way I started teaching myself steel was thinking in terms of what frets were what keys when the 3-4-5-6-8-10 strings were played. In other words I considered the third fret as a "G" fret not the third fret etc etc.
Has anyone else did this ? In a way, it seems sort of odd to have to memorize numbers referring to keys. If someone announces a song in the key of "A" why not know where the home "A" frets are rather than thinking "ok "A" is at the 5th fret.
I suppose knowing nothing but rythm guitar would have the baring on it. I also know that A & B pedals over the number 5 chord fret pulls to number one etc etc. 3 frets up and pull the B's and E's is a number one chord etc. Just curious as to how others think about this--? Thanks, Bill Myrick

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 6 Feb 2003 8:44 am

The real answer is I don't think about it. Another important scenario is at a fill in gig or in the studio, you may have to play from a leadsheet or chord chart (numbers or note names). That's a situation where a whole slew of stuff is happening at once and YOU HAVE TO KEEP UP -- not just with what KEY the song's in, but a whole chain of chord changes, sometimes two or more a measure. If you have to think "ok, I'm in A and I need to go D so I hit A+B if I'm on 5 with no pedals or go back two frets and release if I'm on 12 with A+B" -- that train will leave the station without you.

What works for me is to recognize where ALL the A Major chords are and to think in MUSICAL numbers -- NOT FRET NUMBERS -- wherever possible. I think most E9 players key in to the no pedals position. But a player who doesn't know how to find the closest iim or IVMaj or V7 chord, RELATIVE TO THAT POSITION, should work harder on learning the neck, including scale and chord positions.

I agree with you, Bill, that knowing the chord name is more important than the fret number. As I'm sure you know, there's a whole lot more to it in a bandstand situation when a chart is all you have to go on and you don't have TIME TO THINK. You have to REACT.

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 06 February 2003 at 08:46 AM.]

Bill Myrick · Post by **Bill Myrick** » 6 Feb 2003 9:10 am

Points well taken--thanks, Larry. I think I'm looking at it in much the same light , it's just the way I learned it to start with I suppose . Along these lines, I think the biggest improvement in my playing came back around 1970 or 71 when I traded my first steel (Fender 400) back to Scotty for a Sho Bud that had four knee levers and I could then raise my E's for another one chord position three frets above the open fret. I know Hal Rugg sets up several intro's from that position such as "Don't Come Home A'Drinkin" Thanks for the e-mail too, Frank. -

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 6 Feb 2003 9:26 am

When I mentally "verbalize" it, I think in terms of musical note names, not fret numbers. But most of the time when I'm playing I think in relative positions from a key fret.

I read music more often than I read tab, so maybe that has something to do with it. People who read tab know their fret numbers more instinctively than I do.

------------------
<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6), Roland Handsonic, Line6 Variax (coming soon)

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 6 Feb 2003 7:06 pm

I don't "see" numbers and frets, I see "chords" and "keys".

Bob Hayes · Post by **Bob Hayes** » 8 Feb 2003 11:45 pm

Bill,
I've related to the neck (guitar,steel, bass) the same way since I started a thousand years ago.and in my mind...looking at the prime 3 chords of a song ie..G,C,D ..the "C' would be the 'UP' chord, "D" would be the "Down" chord.and other chords would be "variable" up or "down" chords. That was before I knew any thing about the "Nashville System". But my mind STILL lookes at thngs that way..so Transposing to a different KEY..comes easier...'specially if you've spent a life time learning a song in "G" and some jerk has to play or sing it "Ab"
Grouchy[This message was edited by Bob Hayes on 08 February 2003 at 11:46 PM.]

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 9 Feb 2003 2:54 am

Me too also as well.
Baz www.waikiki-islanders.com

------------------

Steel players do it without fretting

http://www.waikiki-islanders.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

[This message was edited by basilh on 09 February 2003 at 02:56 AM.]

Mac Bellingrath · Post by **Mac Bellingrath** » 9 Feb 2003 4:57 am

Bill,

Greetings form L.A.! (Lower Arkansas). Isn't Pea Ridge up in northeast Arkansas?

I call myself thinking in fret numbers, degrees of the scale, and relationships -- and when I'm playing a regular guitar, that is true. However, when I'm playing steel, I always feel like I'm transposing when I'm playing my C6 neck.

I'm a new steel player and I guess I go back to an "open is E" mentality when I have to think harder about what I'm doing -- which for me is when I'm playing steel. Playing my C6 neck would be a lot easier if I could get away from my "open is E" orientation, but, at age 50, that orientation is probably a permanent fixture for me.

Are you going to the TSGA Jamboree? If so, I hope to see you there. Have you heard that Hal Rugg, John Hughey, and Herby Wallace are going to be at Ronnie's Guitar Shop in Hot Springs on March 5 (the night before the TSGA show begins)? I posted a message about the show in the Events section of the Forum. My posting there is probably more than ten days old, so you'll have to use the "Last 20 Days" option to see it.

So to close:

When I'm playing cool as heck,
I know my way around the neck,
But when I'm lost ... as I can be,
3 is always G for me!

Best regards,

Mac

------------------
LEFTY 2002 Pedalmaster D-10 8x5, Supro lap 8-string strung lefty, Peavey Nashville 400, Rabro righty-strung-lefty, Fender resonator converted to lap-style lefty by Resophonic Outfitters

Bill Myrick · Post by **Bill Myrick** » 9 Feb 2003 4:58 am

WHEW !!!!! what a relief !!!! I'm not alone in my odd ball thinking *LOL* I guess differant strokes for differant folks but it seems to make more sense to me this way. I remember when I traded for my present Sho Bud back in the late 70's -- I had the music shop owner set it up with a Day split and had both E's put on the left knee. He thought that to be a bit absurd but I later found Weldon and Hal had it that way too. Remember that DeVere ??-

Bill Myrick · Post by **Bill Myrick** » 9 Feb 2003 5:17 am

Hi Mac--- Pea Ridge is a quaint little civil war town in extreme north west Ar. next to Bella Vista and close to the corners of the four state area here.We are in a high industry area and the economy here has been booming since early 70's. Tremendous growth !!
I saw your post on Ronnie's show and I'd love to take it in--we'll see. I bought my present 400 from him. I hope to take in Dallas this year but then --I say that every year. Thanks for the nice post reply here.
Time rolls on--I'm getting older-
You won't find me a'playin bolder-
Lots of times and sad regrets-
I can't even see the stupid frets !!!
-

Mac Bellingrath · Post by **Mac Bellingrath** » 9 Feb 2003 6:14 am

Hi Bill,

After I finished my first reply to your posting, I remembered "The Battle of Pea Ridge." How could I forget that little bit of Arkansas history?

I did have your town in the wrong part of the state. You folks really have had tremendous growth in northwest Arkansas. Send some of that down to the delta!

I got a good laugh out of your poem. After I bought my pedal steel about a year, I was chagrined to learn that I had wear my reading glasses to distinguish one string from the next!

Mac