New stamped cones ?

Dave Rodgers · Post by **Dave Rodgers** » 17 Jan 2013 11:33 am

I seem to remember reading somewhere that 'Smith & Young' were hoping to start making stamped cones at some time in the future. Does any one know if this is fact ?

Is there current a source for good quality stamped Dobro cones ( spider bridge ) these days ?

I wouldn't mind having a spare cone for my 70s OMI and i do like the stamped cone sound in this guitar.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 17 Jan 2013 12:02 pm

www.elderly.com music supplier in Michigan USA shows the S&Y cones, but they are spun aluminum, not stamped.

Dave Thier · Post by **Dave Thier** » 18 Jan 2013 7:02 am

I presently have a Smith & Young cone in my Clinesmith. It is a very good example of a modern, spun cone.

If anyone would know if stamped cones are available, it would be Paul Beard. Give him a call.

Dave

Webb Kline · Post by **Webb Kline** » 18 Jan 2013 7:23 am

Paul Beard's new triple spun cone is nothing short of phenomenal.

Dave Thier · Post by **Dave Thier** » 18 Jan 2013 8:27 am

Webb Kline wrote:Paul Beard's new triple spun cone is nothing short of phenomenal.

I got to hear one of his new cones at IBMA last fall and it sounded great! I doubt that it sounds anything like a stamped cone though.

Dave

Howard Parker · Post by **Howard Parker** » 18 Jan 2013 9:27 am

I don't know of a source for stamped cones. The dobro world has moved away from them. Just keep the one you have clean and it should last more than a lifetime. They are not subject to the stresses a spun cone endures.

h

Dave Rodgers · Post by **Dave Rodgers** » 18 Jan 2013 9:36 am

Dave Thier wrote:
I doubt that it sounds anything like a stamped cone though.

Dave

Exactly Dave ...i have a Wechter and it has a spun cone sitting in there... nice enough, but I much prefer the bluesy tones of the stamped cone in the OMI for the style i play though .

I see cheap imported cones offered for sale over here in UK which are no use to me. I thinking that should i ever need a replacement cone in the Dobro it would be good to have a spare stamped cone ready to go in there.
I suppose that the market demands are for modern spun cones and therefore no-one makes stamped cones anymore.

Don Barnhardt · Post by **Don Barnhardt** » 19 Jan 2013 5:17 pm

You might be able to cannibalize one from an old off brand guitar.

Dave Rodgers · Post by **Dave Rodgers** » 20 Jan 2013 7:25 am

Don Barnhardt wrote:You might be able to cannibalize one from an old off brand guitar.

Yes with all these folks putting spun cones in their Dobro's you'd think that there would be plenty of stamped cones around somewhere.

I have only a basic knowledge of Dobro history so could someone tell me where the stamped cones fitted in the 70s OMIs came from ?. Were they made in the US or imported ?

If they were US made is there any way of telling the difference between an 70s Dobro stamped cone and a modern cheap stamped import ?

Howard Parker · Post by **Howard Parker** » 20 Jan 2013 7:37 am

All the OMI stuff was domestic and cones that were replaced were typically trashed.

The import stuff you see are spun. They are just VERY thick and heavy. If you pick one up for experimentation make sure you have an appropriate tension screw. The imports use metric.

Something else to note: Modern domestic spun cones are 10 9/16 dia. OMI cones were 10 1/2. Not usually an issue because a new setup/cone replacement involves routing the top to accommodate. Also over the years the top/end of those guitars have moved slightly, elongating the mounting space. Routing the top makes the guitar good for another 30 years

Beard sells USED import cones for less then $10 if you want to experiment.

h

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 20 Jan 2013 7:55 am

I'm also a relative newcomer to OMI history having bought my first one in 1987 or 88.

Can you describe how does the tone and volume of the stamped cones differ from the spun units?

I'm curious as to when OMI stopped using stamped cones as well, MOF I assumed they were all spun in that area.

Here's a shot of a stamped cone from what I think is an Asian cone/spider/bridge ass'y. I don't remember where it came from...I think it came with a purchase of some other parts.

Howard Parker · Post by **Howard Parker** » 20 Jan 2013 8:05 am

Jerry,

I cannot recall a short lug cone from Asia. You might have a rare lug cone assembly from the late 1920's-1930's. Can't tell from the pic. If so I'm seen offers in the $200 range from folks looking to restore a vintage guitar. A test might be to see if the threaded rivet is english or metric.

I am uncertain when OMI stopped using stamped cones. I know for a long while they used both stamped/spun in the same period. They would just grab whatever was sitting on the shelf. They'd do the same with body and neck parts. On some guitars you'll see penciled dates that would span a year or more.

As for the tone. The new cones are spun thin and are very flexible. This allows the guitar to be much more responsive from bass to treble. Most folks would say that the stamped cone attenuates the highs and lows, leaving all the midrange stuff in. The guitar is a bit "deader" to my ears. Mike Auldridge called it midrange "honk".

h

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 20 Jan 2013 8:27 am

Thanks for the OMI info Howard.

On the cone, I don't see any markings of any kind on the ass'y. Best I can tell, the tension screw is a #4 National thread. There are 4ea. 1/2" holes in the center of the cone and 4 pin holes on the flange where it looks like it may have been attached to the ledge.

Anyway, I'd probably let it go for $200.

Dave Rodgers · Post by **Dave Rodgers** » 20 Jan 2013 8:51 am

Howard Parker wrote:Jerry,

The guitar is a bit "deader" to my ears. Mike Auldridge called it midrange "honk".

h

That's the sound i love but i do admit it can be a bit harsh for some styles .I can see, and hear, why the new cones have become very popular. They do sound lovely.

Thanks for the OMI info Howard.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 20 Jan 2013 8:58 am

Thanks Dave.

Howard Parker · Post by **Howard Parker** » 20 Jan 2013 9:33 am

I understand. Tone is sooooo.. subjective. Everyone has a tone in their head and if you are like me you spend a lifetime pursuing it!

Jerry, I'm at the Beard shop Wed-Mon. I'll show this thread to Paul and see if he can authenticate your cone better than I can.

Cheers,

h

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 20 Jan 2013 4:15 pm

snip

Howard Parker wrote:I understand. Tone is sooooo.. subjective. Everyone has a tone in their head and if you are like me you spend a lifetime pursuing it!h

Truer words were never written Howard. It's great to achieve the tone you seek regardless of what it is.
Despite people saying Oh just play the danged thing, when you hear a tone come of an instrument that you are hearing in your head, that really gets your juices flowing and makes you want to play.

Howard, here's a shot of the dis-assembled ass'y. I can't remember who I got it from, but I'm thinking they told me it was out of an import reso of some design. [Edited to add: some online searching does make reference to a Dobro® model from the 30's described as having a 4 hole stamped lug cone, so it'll be interesting to find more info.]

Sorry for the sidetrack Dave. I respect and appreciate your choice in cones and tone and I hope you find the stamped cone you are looking for.

Bryan Bradfield · Post by **Bryan Bradfield** » 20 Jan 2013 5:21 pm

Howard Parker said:
"I don't know of a source for stamped cones. The dobro world has moved away from them. Just keep the one you have clean and it should last more than a lifetime. They are not subject to the stresses a spun cone endures."

Howard, could you elaborate on how and why a spun cones endures more stresses?

Howard Parker · Post by **Howard Parker** » 20 Jan 2013 5:34 pm

Well,

The stresses are the same of course but a modern spun cone is lighter, thinner and more flexible than a stamped cone. The flexibly allows it to be more reactive to the guitar. It's lack of stiffness also makes it a tad more prone to distortion under extreme conditions (over tension, shock, etc)

fwiw I believe that the modern cone is spun from a different alloy then the old cones. However, I have no idea whether all domestic spinners are using the same alloy.

I lived though Paul's early spinning experience. I remember the pile of "duds"

The process is labor intensive and physically demanding on one's lower back.

The spinning room at the shop is a magic zone.

You should stop by the shop if you are ever in the vicinity.

h

Bryan Bradfield · Post by **Bryan Bradfield** » 20 Jan 2013 6:02 pm

Howard:
I talked with Tut Taylor several decades ago concerning the old 1930s cones sinking, or flattening out at the rim. He described reforming the rims by hand which, among other things, brought the action height back up to the original set-up. I reformed these cones successfully for several years, until I switched over to spun Quarterman cones in the 1980s and 1990s. I haven’t noticed this sinking in these spun cones, yet I’ve heard that these modern spun cones become fatigued and require occasional changing out.
The distortion you mentioned appears to me to be a catastrophic event that is immediately apparent to the player, as opposed to a gradual degradation.
True?

Howard Parker · Post by **Howard Parker** » 20 Jan 2013 6:21 pm

Maybe,

I've seen early Quartermans that have sunk over time, maybe a decade. I've had a 1985 Beard with an original Dobro/Quarterman that sunk after about 10 years or so. Over tensioning is also a common issue.

I'm not a believer in reforming cones. I consider them "wear items" like the nut and bridge insert.

fwiw..ymmv

h

John Mulligan · Post by **John Mulligan** » 20 Jan 2013 6:30 pm

I am sure enjoying this topic. Thanks for sharing your expertise so freely.It is much appreciated.

Howard Parker · Post by **Howard Parker** » 20 Jan 2013 6:33 pm

You are more then welcome. I don't claim any particular expertise. I've experienced a lot though

cheers

h

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 21 Jan 2013 1:46 am

clickhere Dave R., this may be the thread where you saw the mention of S&Y stamped cones. There is a reply by Eric Smith re: that 3 or 4 posts down. I don't find any further updates there however.

Dave Rodgers · Post by **Dave Rodgers** » 21 Jan 2013 1:53 am

Thanks Jerry....that is what i read. I'll contact smith and young and see if anythings happening..... now i know i wasn't dreaming.

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