New Guy Here

Gabe Masry · Post by **Gabe Masry** » 16 Jan 2013 2:30 pm

Hey guys! I'm new not only to this forum but to the Lap Steel Guitar! My girlfriend was kind enough to get me a beginner level lap steel for Christmas and now I'm trying to get to know the thing a bit. I'm a rock/jam/blues player for the most part. I've played guitar for around 25 years and felt like this would be a good challenge. I was right!! I'm having a heck of a time making this thing sound nice!

I have chosen to start out in E7 tuning. Steve Kimock showed me a few things including this tuning.

I'm having the most trouble controlling the bar at this point. I'm not sure I have the right size/shape bar and don't really have the extra $$ laying around to try ten different slides. I've got a Bullet that measures 3 1/4" long and about 5/8" diameter. I feel like I need a fatter diameter and shorter length than this so far. I have a hard time controlling it when attempting slants, can't really get my thumb behind it and end up fumbling often when going back to straight.

Anyhow, I wanted to introduce myself and at the same time open it up for ANY and ALL suggestions on how to go about learning this instrument. I have good musical knowledge but need VERY BASIC help in getting started on this particular instrument.

Thanks!
-Gabe

Jerome Hawkes · Post by **Jerome Hawkes** » 16 Jan 2013 2:54 pm

I don't think that bar is to off to learn on - its a tad long for a 6 string. I don't like em longer than 3" x 3/4". I'll say that the best bar you can get is the Dunlop Jerry Byrd bar - its under $20. I've got some high end bars but that's the one I usually play.
Here is a simple tip I learned from Joe Wright when I was starting - keep a bar with you all the time - just work it around in your left hand while you're driving down the road, watching tv, etc. set it down, then pick it up, do it again, and again x1000. After a sort period you don't even think about it - it's become so natural.
The simple "trick" to learning slants is to "anchor" the index finger and use that as your pivot - the thumb does the work here ( a bar with an indented butt is essential)
I there are some tutorials over on the Hawaiian steel site (hsga) ...beware there are some bad ones on YouTube though.
Good luck

Gabe Masry · Post by **Gabe Masry** » 16 Jan 2013 3:29 pm

Thanks man!! I'll look into picking up one of those slides and check out those vids! I've been given the tip to always have the slide and practice those moves. Didn't think to take it with me though. I'll start doing that. I'd like to get good at this sooner than later!!

Jerome Hawkes · Post by **Jerome Hawkes** » 16 Jan 2013 3:40 pm

That's right - keep it with you at all times - you never know when you might get in a bar fight with some drunk an need it......don't ask me how I know

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 16 Jan 2013 5:13 pm

Don't drop that bar onto the ground, though! The ground will take chunks out of it.

David Matzenik · Post by **David Matzenik** » 16 Jan 2013 5:26 pm

Don't give up on that bullet bar. Check my photos in this thread, and remember grip is all about meat on the bar. You are not holding a pipe with calipers.

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... highlight=

Gabe Masry · Post by **Gabe Masry** » 17 Jan 2013 3:49 am

Wow. I'm struggling. I can slant when pushing the back of the bar back under my palm ok. Going out though, I'm pushing the slide right off of the strings and throwing it onto the floor. I can't get my thumb there in time and when I do I don't have my index finger in the right spot...or something. I don't know. Does anyone have a slow motion example of how to properly execute this?? I'm getting a bit frustrated. I know I've only been at it a short time but I usually pick stuff up pretty quickly. This is not falling into that category.

James Trout · Post by **James Trout** » 17 Jan 2013 4:12 am

As a fairly new steel player who has played guitar for years I can tell you that everything you described is part of the learning process. Expect to drop your bar on a regular basis when trying to learn slant techniques. I am mainly a resonator and weissenborn player so I use the sharp edged bars with the groove on top. Until I quit dropping the bar, I would use a cheap one to practice with because it ended up dented/chipped over time. Carpet would have probably helped too. If you want to see a slow motion/in depth demonstration of how to slant a bar you might want to check out Jimmy Heffernan's video on: http://www.jimmyheffernan.com/store/pro ... y-from-me/
For $10 you can download the video, and Jimmy goes through a pretty good breakdown of how to pivot that bar. For the most part, it just takes time and practice (like everything else). One more tidbit, playing open D (or tune everything up to open E)really seemed to me the closest to guitar playing and was pretty easy to get started on. Open D would be (from low to high) DADF#AD (if you want E just tune everything up two steps higher.
Have fun,
Nelson

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 17 Jan 2013 4:22 am

Gabriel, I have a temporary solution for you: stop slanting! It's OK, you can make plenty of music without slanting, you just bring the technique in over time. I'm not sure which tuning you're using, but what's more important is getting to know what you can do without slanting the bar first. If you're using C6, there's a ton of music waiting to be played, and you can introduce slanting by playing 6ths on strings 1 and 4, just like you would do on strings 1 and 3 of your guitar (they are the same notes, E and G).

Someone mentioned using a Lap Dawg--I started off playing with a Stevens bar (I didn't know any better--pre-internet), but when I switched to a bullet bar things suddenly became possible, so it's to each his own. If you can get comfortable with a bullet bar in your hand, stick with it.

Take it easy, man.

David Matzenik · Post by **David Matzenik** » 17 Jan 2013 4:23 am

Check out Lorene Ruymar on slants:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLxIU8u2gko
This is the standard approach. Personally, I feel the arched index finger is a liability, but that is the way most people do it.
Mike is spot on. You don't have to master slants right away.

Jerome Hawkes · Post by **Jerome Hawkes** » 17 Jan 2013 4:35 am

I'll agree with the gang - you are trying to jump to step 10 when you need to be working on step 1. You can't slant the bar until you can correctly hold and control the bar - the "bar" is not the issue here.
Just take it easy and work on 1 thing at a time.

Gabe Masry · Post by **Gabe Masry** » 17 Jan 2013 12:40 pm

Mike Neer wrote:Gabriel, I have a temporary solution for you: stop slanting! It's OK, you can make plenty of music without slanting, you just bring the technique in over time. I'm not sure which tuning you're using, but what's more important is getting to know what you can do without slanting the bar first. If you're using C6, there's a ton of music waiting to be played, and you can introduce slanting by playing 6ths on strings 1 and 4, just like you would do on strings 1 and 3 of your guitar (they are the same notes, E and G).

Someone mentioned using a Lap Dawg--I started off playing with a Stevens bar (I didn't know any better--pre-internet), but when I switched to a bullet bar things suddenly became possible, so it's to each his own. If you can get comfortable with a bullet bar in your hand, stick with it.

Take it easy, man.

That's fair. I was told to keep a bar with me all the time to practice this in particular though, so I figured it was something that should be learned early on. It's the only thing I can practice away from the instrument.

As a total beginner on the instrument, and without a formal teacher to tell me what I'm doing right and wrong, it's hard to know what and how to practice.

Ben Feher · Post by **Ben Feher** » 17 Jan 2013 12:58 pm

Mike Neer wrote:Gabriel, I have a temporary solution for you: stop slanting! It's OK, you can make plenty of music without slanting, you just bring the technique in over time. I'm not sure which tuning you're using, but what's more important is getting to know what you can do without slanting the bar first.

Agreed. When I was starting out way over-emphasized the importance of slants. Knowing what pairs of notes make up what chords is vastly more important in my opinion. Knowing that a major chord (for ex: E) is made up of a 5th (E + B), a major 3rd (E + G#), and a minor 3rd (G# + B). Minor is just a 5th plus a minor 3rd + a major 3rd, but in the other order. Learning to play in a minor key on a major tuning is a really important thing.

If you are looking for something to practice away from the instrument, chord theory is invaluable to playing lap steel.

Gabe Masry · Post by **Gabe Masry** » 17 Jan 2013 3:10 pm

I've been trying to learn or play along to some chord charts. This way I actually feel like I'm making music and not just practicing patterns and such. I'm trying to learn chords in the same or at least close position so I don't have to slide 5+ frets to the next chord.

I'm pretty sure I've got the wrong size slide. I ordered a 919. Hopefully it'll be here in the next week or so. I think my grip is causing some of my problems.

I'm actually doing ok but as the tuning is foreign I'm having trouble finding chords here and there. It'll come I know but patience is NOT a strong point for me. Haha

Thanks for the help and encouragement guys!

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