C13 (low F) harmonized major scale chord

[Jean-Sebastien Gauthier]

After reading the Solomon's post about his C6 tuning with low F.
I realized that you can play real nice chord with C6 if you altered some
of the lower strings. I love what he played so much that I decided to
restring my steel without the high G.

I realized that I'm so used to the low C (mainly for minor chord) that
I can't retune it to C#. But I want a dominant seventh in straight bar
so I tune the low A to Bb and for the major 7th I retuned the low G to
F and came with the C13 (low F) like Mike Neer uses.

High to low (E.C.A.G.E.C.Bb.F)

Now I can harmonize all the major scale with 7th chord. (CMaj7,
Dmin7, Emin7, FMaj7, G7, Amin7, Bmin7b5)

I tried to have the more important note in a 3 notes chord and play
them with a voice leading that sound like an ascendant scale and I
came with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAUWDEg8_40&feature=plcp

[tab]
E |------------------------7-------|
C |----------------7-----------12--|
A |--------------------12----------|
G |----5---7-------7-------7---12--|
E |7---5---7---12------12------12--|
C |7---5---7---12------12----------|
Bb |----------------7-------7-------|
F |7-----------12------------------|
[/tab]

I wonder if you guys play these chord? which tuning?

thanks!

<b>Edited by Brad Bechtel to align tab and correct some spellings.</b>

[Nate Hofer]

Interesting! I'm going to try this scale out too. I need a reason to play around with the low B-flat. I wonder how it works in chordal melody within a chord progression?

[Riley Hart]

First, my current approach to learning the open tuned steel reflects my years of playing bass. On the 12 string I am trying to learn my scales and positions on the bottom and feel like my A is needed to ground my minors...and currently have the Anderson tuning on the bottom; lo to hi, D F A C. The low bass string is not seeing a lot of use, and even though I have tried pulling it, and using this; F A Bb C, i kept bumping into it (Bb)by accident and ended up retuning without it.

So, I am considering this; F Bb A C, reversing the order the Bb appears, but throwing it out of sequence pitch-wise. This seems like it wud be out of the way if not needed and keep the same relationship on the bottom that I am used to having on the bass.

I realize this is an 8 string thread, and sorry if I am off topic, but in my position of just basically starting out, it is important to me to learn scales and positions that i can stay with long enuf to become internalized, and it means a lot for me to have these roots on the bottom in case i am playing somewhere where i need to define the chords.

Does anyone think this bottom string arrangement makes any sense?

[Jean-Sebastien Gauthier]

Interesting! I'm going to try this scale out too. I need a reason to play around with the low B-flat. I wonder how it works in chordal melody within a chord progression?

For now I just use the Bb for 7th chord and 3 note diminish chord.

[Nate Hofer]

J-SG,

I don't think you're wrong. But your scale pattern is hard for me to remember. I like my pattern because there's symmetry to it. It's more intuitive to me. I guess I can only say it's better for me. I see the low A and low F needing each other to make the most sense. Rather than the low Bb and low F.

However, again I don't know the G,Bb, C rational yet. I know there is one.

E |------------------------------------------------|
C |0---------------5-----7-----------------12-----|
A |-----5----7-----------------12----14-----------|
G |0---------------5-----7-----------------12-----|
E |-----5----7-----------------12----14-----------|
C# |------------------------------------------------|
A |0---------------5----7------------------12------|
F |----5-----7-----------------12----14------------|

By the way, you can get a dom 7 in a straight bar with the low C#. For example I think of the open position (with the C#) as an open A7 (rather than an open C6.) Just don't play the high open C string.

I'd love an expert to comment on the chord scale patterns. What does Mike Neer think?

[Jean-Sebastien Gauthier]

Yes your tuning is very nice, Im just to used to the low C for minor chord, having a 9 strings It would be great to have the Jerry Byrd C6/A7 and add the low F. I dont know, I will keep the Bb for a while and maybe switch the C6/A7...

[Nate Hofer]

I think you have triple neck too, yeah? I need to learn your tuning better. Neer has some good stuff on that I saw today looking back at his old blog posts.

[Jean-Sebastien Gauthier]

Yes Mike Neer is a master of these tuning, he use them both to play jazz! Imagine when he will have is D10!

Yes I have the nice old Fender T8 but I try to stay with my Tremblay S8, I love the tone better and I want to stick to a tuning until I know how to play.

[Jean-Sebastien Gauthier]

I'm now trying a low F#. I hope the quest will not be to long!!

D9th -- F#CE, F#CEA
F#m7(b5) - F#EAC, F#ACE
F#7 -- F#BbE
F#7+9 -- F#BbEA

[Jean-Sebastien Gauthier]

I tried playing the major scale and got this

[Steve Ahola]

By the way, you can get a dom 7 in a straight bar with the low C#. For example I think of the open position (with the C#) as an open A7 (rather than an open C6.) Just don't play the high open C string.

If you do hit the high C note you get a dominant +9th chord which is the "Jimi Hendrix" chord (like "Foxy Lady") when played on the I- or a really smooth jazz chord when played on other positions of the scale. So if you do hit the 2nd string by mistake all is not lost...

Steve Ahola

P.S. I think it is good to have one 8 stringer tuned to C6 with the E on top (to get the lower notes) and another tuned to C6 with the G on top (to get the higher notes.) Either of them can have the C# for the low C if you so desire.

Or you can get a 10 string and have your cake and Edith, too.