Amplifiers and race cars

[Bill Howard]

I just saw an article in another section of the forum concerning Little Walter Amps, I guess people want them because Paul F and Vince G plays thru one.
i built automatic transmissions for over 30 yrs this young kid came and I built him a turbo 350 for his nova
he had a sb 400 and was beating big dollar cars with his little junky nova...(eighth mile).....In the 70's I remember seeing Wild Bill Wes(Opryland) He was playing a not so hot looking beat up Sho Bud with a raggy looking old twin... his tone and playing were both incredible my point?.
If you got the dough go get you a 3 or 4 thousand dollar Amp fine,Buy a Gold plated Franklin I'm sure Mr Franklin will have it plated if you got da dough...
But it still isn't going to make you sound like Paul or Vince...Brent Mason....Buddy Emmons... as written many many times its in your hands and playing technique. one thing I have noticed in the forum is monkey see monkey do what works for one may not work for you .....I wanted and GOT a Webb.....Sold it about 2 weeks later....YAWN,,,,,My Old Nashville 400 BLEW IT AWAY!...in da hands. Sorry had to say this...

[Cartwright Thompson]

Amen Bill.

[Jackie Anderson]

You can say that again, Carty!

[Mike Schwartzman]

Ah yes...I agree, "you can't buy a game". It's in the hands, feet, and knees ( don't forget the heart and brain too).

But I think one CAN alter one's tone for the better with equipment changes...sometimes with lots of dollars and sometimes with very few dollars. YMMV...Slim

[Mac Knowles]

Yup!......hard to replace talent with just equipment, no matter how exotic it is.

[Dustin Rigsby]

You may not be able to fix tone with high dollar equipment,but......I recently had my trutone pickup replaced with a telonics 84. It made a HUGE difference in the sound of my MSA classic ! Even more of a difference was with an a-b comparison with a standard steel amp and a high dollar telonics rack preamp,power amp, using a lexicon mpx 200. It was so crisp and beautiful and the difference was so noticeable that I am now saving up money for a similar system !

[Clete Ritta]

If the amp is the car, then I'd add that the guitar is the engine. Helps to have it tuned up and running smoothly! Still up to the driver though.

Clete

[Tim Whitlock]

Tone is undoubtedly in the hands (and feet), but some amps make your hands have to work harder. A rig you don't have to fight with can be a real joy to play.

[Tim Marcus]

my angle is that if you took that kid out of the Nova, and stuck him into a Ferrari, he would really take his driving to the extreme.

Tone, according to me, in order of importance:

1 - the way you play the instrument
2 - the amplifier
3 - the instrument itself
4 - the pickup
5 - any other ancillary pedals, cables, etc

I often compare my high end amps to high end sports cars. Sure, you can get around in a ford focus - it does all the same things as a Ferrari, but there is a reason you want the Ferrari. That reason is because its a high performance machine tuned with great care for one purpose only with no regard to cost.

It may not be for everybody - and its certainly not for beginners (no one learns to drive on a Ferrari I hope) but it does make a large difference in how the instrument sounds and more importantly feels.

[Olie Eshleman]

I agree with pretty much everything already posted here. I only have this to say: When I buy a new piece of gear that improves my tone, I get really happy, giddy like a kid at Christmas. I find I play better because of it too. This has become an addiction

[Don Griffiths]

I'm amazed how much better my amp sounds after 2 hours of practice.

[David Mason]

There's a market for real high-end Fender-"improved" guitars like the D'Pergo (+$4,000) and the DeTemple (+$6,000). I get a kick out of the advertising for these, and other pricey Fender-based ones like the Suhr and Fender's own custom shop. They jump through linguistic hoops to convey the idea that to get authentic vintage tone, you need all their pricy improvements.

Leo Fender had four basic design principles:
1) It had to be made out of cheap stuff.
2) It had to be made with mostly-available machinery, no expensive custom tooling.
3) It had to be made by semi-skilled labor, no fancy "luthiers" need apply.
4) It had to look and work OK.

It's a bit hard to square that with the ecstatic gooosh guitar magazine reviewers emit when they know a guitar is either a) old; b) really expensive. I didn't even know I needed hand-crafted fossilized mastodon ivory switch tips to sound better till Mr. DeTemple educated me. At least, now I know what's been wrong all these years.

[Doyle Mitchell]

Bill, this is interesting, especially at this time. Last week I put on a couple of steel tracks on a friends cd in a top class studio, he had brought in a well known engineer from Nashville, I took my old Seirra gearless with an E66 pu and a 1978 Nashville LTD 400 and my DD3 delay.. sitting there with thousands of dollars of new equipment all around me being used by the other palyers, the engineer came out and said i want to see what you are using, so i thought well here we go ! Instead he said that is one great sound, dont change nothing ! I went home smiling and proud of my old gear ! I too have an Evans and other amps but to my ear the old Peavey ltd400 and session 500 is still hard to beat for country steel.

[Robert Burgess]

There's a market for real high-end Fender-"improved" guitars like the D'Pergo (+$4,000) and the DeTemple (+$6,000). I get a kick out of the advertising for these, and other pricey Fender-based ones like the Suhr and Fender's own custom shop. They jump through linguistic hoops to convey the idea that to get authentic vintage tone, you need all their pricy improvements.

Leo Fender had four basic design principles:
1) It had to be made out of cheap stuff.
2) It had to be made with mostly-available machinery, no expensive custom tooling.
3) It had to be made by semi-skilled labor, no fancy "luthiers" need apply.
4) It had to look and work OK.

It's a bit hard to square that with the ecstatic gooosh guitar magazine reviewers emit when they know a guitar is either a) old; b) really expensive. I didn't even know I needed hand-crafted fossilized mastodon ivory switch tips to sound better till Mr. DeTemple educated me. At least, now I know what's been wrong all these years.

A body must cost a dollar tops!(L.Fder) A friend has a 54 strat on the wall that Leo' gave his Grandad off the line as a present for him, he never played but has kept it.He has had name players on their knees begging him to name his price but he just thinks it is a nice reminder for him and it was only a cheap guitar?? so why should he sell it.Some of the cheap China-built guitars now sound as good as those early Fenders cause they are built like they were then, that's the secret guys, exotic woods and high end bits do not sound vintage.

[Roger Francis]

I would not say sub standard....I will say less desirable for the type of sound I am after....Yes, tone is mostly in the hands and tone enhancement comes from everything else......I was recording for the first time with a mostly mixing engineer whom we twisted his arm to track the Time Jumpers.....His reputation is of the highest regard among studio musicians....When I hear recordings that please me tonally its usually him mixing.........His comment after hearing the Little Walter for the first time was...." Can we go back and record all the past years with this new amp"..Needless to say he loved it....I'm getting these types of unsolicited compliments from those whose hearing I respect the most........The Little Walter sounds incredible. If you get the chance to try one you will hear a difference in your tone..... In a good way....Paul


A quote from Paul Franklin

[Franklin]

Bill,

I believe tone starts with the hands and tone enhancement does not stop with the hands.

A players identifiable personal tone is in the hands only......From there, every piece of gear subtracts from, or adds to, the players hands, which becomes their overall tone. Overall tone changes with gear choices....For example, Chalker on the Fender does not sound like Chalker on the MSA. No matter what he uses he always sounds like Curly. We could subjectively debate which of his overall tones is better but would probably agree he always sounds good due to his hands.

Concerning your monkey see, monkey do comment...... If tone is all in the hands? it would not matter whether you used the Webb you had to own, or the old 400 because you would have tonally sounded the same through either amp......You said " the 400 blew the Webb away." Your assessment confirms that gear enhances tone...... I also prefer the tone of those old Session 400's over the Webb. And neither could provide me the tone of a Little Walter....

Gear combinations do matter.

Paul

[Mike Archer]

what Paul sez is true without doubt
tone starts in ones hands
the little walter is a great amp a monster amp
ive played through one but
I cant afford one but if I could I would get one
but with that being said you work with
what you can afford
to the best of your amp spending dollar
and what I have in my case its a nashville 112
which gives me great tone
and I use a pot vol pedal by choice these days
I can see where anyone would benifit from
the LW amp and many other things as well
IMHO Mike

[John Gould]

Well there is some valid points to everyone's post.
Tone is a evolution of one's ability and gear. I know my tone has changed over the years. The picks and strings have changed. The brand of steel has changed several times. The amps have changed, the effects have changed as well. I think I've settled into something that works for me and other people seem to think is good as well. What works for me may not work for you. All fingers and angles change tone

[Mike Archer]

one thing I forgot to say is this
I dont use any gear just because a well known player uses it
if I like a amp or guitar or whatever
ill use it only because I like it
and I will not recomend any gear just because I like a dealer personaly I have to like the product
to endorse anything.....Mike

[Bill Howard]

Of course equipment does matter.
But as Paul Franklin said Curly Chalker is going to sound like Curly Chalker...But just because someone buys the same Amp or steel that Paul or Curly uses is not going to make them sound like them.
My monkey see monkey do observation came I went to a steel club it was like a standard had been set,ALL of them had the same tuners... the ones who could afford had big rack systems... most couldn't play very well no matter how much they spent...then I go back to Wild Bill West made junk sound great, I rest my case..