Redefining PSG, or "A piece of wood with some wires"

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 8 Nov 2002 9:37 am

Mike Perlowin has the signature: "My gear - a piece of wood with some wires attached". At first it sounds simplistic, but after more thought, one realizes that the statement implies tremendous insight, even if not totally accurate.

Perhaps this forumite has discovered something that we have long forgotten, ie., that our standard tunings and copedants are simply a convenience of culture and evolution, driven by our natural inclination to adopt prior techniques, and social need to interact and communicate experiences with those around us in a common language - whatever its form.

That said, it is encouraging that the PSG is probably less “standardized” than most other instruments.

As a group, the depth and impact of our instrument and music is tremendously constrained by our continued conformance to common standards such as E9/C6/U12, left foot + levers", the Nashville sound, etc. The sheer complexity of playing the PSG seems to improve our tolerance of its relatively ‘narrow’ role in music.

"A piece of wood with some wires” is innocent and without prejudice, and therein lies the formula of invention and revolution.

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My question is: What are (serious!) things that we may change about the instrument, or about how we play or approach it? Let’s take the view that we found a piece of wood, strings, and levers and pedals unassembled in a box, and started from there.

I'll start in the vein of my previous thread:

1) The right foot could and should be fully-integrated into the copedant.
2) Invent a new form of volume control.
3) No C6/E9 allowed.

Even if this post sounds ridiculous, I do hope the discussion can bring to light different aspects of the instrument that we currently take for granted, and which in turns, limits our potential as musicians. Each participant will certainly apply any new insights for their own purposes.
[This message was edited by Tom Gorr on 08 November 2002 at 09:39 AM.][This message was edited by Tom Gorr on 08 November 2002 at 10:08 AM.][This message was edited by Tom Gorr on 08 November 2002 at 10:19 PM.]

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 8 Nov 2002 11:28 am

I think what you're talking about is exactly what happened in the development of the instrument as we know it... faced with a plank with some strings on it, some very astute "hillbilly savants" added pedals for specific purposes.

True they were working from some preconceptions-hawaiian guitar tunings-picks and a bar... but I think what they came up with in their own attempts to expand their musical vocabulary is an amazing thing, one of the more remarkable musical/mechanical things on the planet.

That their mechanical improvements were/are mainly put to use in commercial country music is another story.

It's not the instrument "constraining us".
"Tolerance for it's narrow role" was for many years the farthest thing from what I wanted to (or did) express. Then I decided I wanted to eat.

someday a player may come along and widen the scope of acceptance.

Look at it this way:

Charlie Parker didn't reinvent the saxophone mechanically. But he did change the way it was played signifigantly. Almost every musician knows it. and many in the general public..but .I doubt the average CD buyer today has a clue.

Maestro Buddy Emmons basically did BOTH, redefining an instrument mechanically and musically, and the majority of even musical minded folks still don't know who he is. Much less Joe Public, CD Buyer

I think reevaluating the instrument itself is a worthy endeavour. But I also think that change / improvement will come incrementally as it did in the 50's and 60's (although at a remarkable pace) , building on what has come before and not wholesale.

A signifigantly different tuning, or approach to playing existing tunings...

Different materials...

perhaps a different means of volume or expression control...

direct brainwave interface so you don't even have to pick OR pedal...

just my $.02

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 8 Nov 2002 12:23 pm

the statement implies tremendous insight....Perhaps this forumite has discovered something....

Gee, I was just trying to be funny.

Please, don't anybody take my new signature line too literally.

------------------
Death to all guitar players who hog all the fills and rides.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 8 Nov 2002 12:31 pm

Seriously, there have some signifigant improvements to our instrument lately, The most recent being the new Excel 5 raise/lower changer and the new MSA millenium.

But more important is that fact that the steel is appearing in other kinds of music, like PaulFranklin's work with Dire Straits and Sheryl Crows's big rock hit "All I Wanna Do," and the importance of Robert Randolph's success in bringing the instrument to the attention of the rock and roll audience cannot be overstated.

Randolph has received a lot of support and criticism here on the forum, but no matter what any of us think of him, he is exposing the steel to an entirely new audience who never knew what it is before, and that can only be a good thing.

Nathan Delacretaz · Post by **Nathan Delacretaz** » 8 Nov 2002 1:08 pm

This is a great discussion. As a newbie who experiences periodic episodes of fear and doubt [due to the complexity of this instrument, not to mention an educational deficiency in steel's traditional C&W genre], it's encouraging to hear experienced players wrestling with this. I have nothing against country - but it does strike me as a little unfortunate that listeners at large [and some players as well] automatically associate steel with C&W only... But I should keep my mouth shut until I can get around respectably on my E9!

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 8 Nov 2002 1:32 pm

Nathan,

As a newbie, you have an advantage that experienced players don't have....you have the freshest possible perspective.

So, you can:
a)tune up to E9, and copy a bunch of licks, and grow your style that way, or

b) detune all your strings, disassemble all raises and lowers, and "design" the instrument of your dreams, without the incumberances of prior knowledge.

What you choose to do on this will forever alter the course of your musical endeavors.

Tom

compuserve · Post by **compuserve** » 8 Nov 2002 1:37 pm

HI MIKE I think because you play an MSA its not a piece wood with strings on its a very well made, great sounding, ally, wood ,thing with strings on,Take care good buddy and GOD BLESS.

MSA CLASSIC PV STEREO CHORUS ECT! ECT !ECT.JIM.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 8 Nov 2002 1:58 pm

Let’s take the view that we found a piece of wood, strings, and levers and pedals unassembled in a box, and started from there.

Will this be a collective effort, or an individual effort? If it's collective, then at what point do we "compare notes" and design? Our present design is the result of individuals thinking separately for a time, and then combining the best of each others' insights, peroidically. And as DVA said, it's likely we would wind up in almost the same place we are today. There have been those few who thought mostly for themselves, the Pete Kleinows, the Julian Tharpes, the Vance Terrys, etc.. These players blazed new trails, but they weren't as widely accepted by those who were playing and learning at the time as Buddy, Lloyd, Weldon, Hal, Tom and Ralph. Now, that's too bad, but it's a fact of life. Not everyone who blazes new trails leads the masses in new directions. Those who aren't followed just wander about on their own, and eventually get lost in the forest of obscurity.

Think less about "changing things", and more about just practicing.

"Do what you can, where you are, with what you have!"...Teddy Roosevelt

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 8 Nov 2002 1:58 pm

Listening to Paul Franklin play rock, Mike Perlowin play classical music and Doug Jernigan play jazz leads me to think that the "limitations" are induced during the learning process and not as a function of the instrument. Start TRYING to play something new, and lo and behold it might happen.

Jim Eaton · Post by **Jim Eaton** » 8 Nov 2002 2:13 pm

One of the best "unknown" players of pedal steel guitar that I have ever had the great pleasure to hear, is named Vince Acuna.
I was doing a rehersal for some hired-gun side-man gig with some "wanna-be" singer at the home of a friend of his in Van Nuys CA in the mid-70's. During a break, I went outside for some fresh air. As I was standing in the driveway of the house where the rehersal was, I saw what looked like the forms that are used to bend the wood for the sides of a drednought acoustic guitar hanging on the back wall of the garage of the house across the street. I was very interested in learing about building acoustic guitars at the time. Not to actually build them myself, but I really wanted to understand how it was done. I walked across the street and stood on the sidewalk looking into the open garage. They were bending forms as I had thought. Just then, the guy who lived there came into the garage through an inside door. He saw me standing there and said "hello". I ask him about the forms and if he built acoustic guitars. He said he was teaching himself from some books. He ask me if I played guitar. I said "I do play guitar, but my main instrument is pedal steel guitar".
He got a big smile on his face and said "I play a little pedal steel myself". I told him I was playing an Emmons D-10 that I just got a few month before. He told me that he was playing an old Fender that he'd had for sometime and ask if I would like to see it?
It was and old 800 if I rember correctly, in that light green color. It had 8 pedals and no knee levers. I thought to myself, well how much can he play on 8 strings with 8 pedals, as he plugged it in to his old tweed Bassman amp and seperate reverb unit.
Then he started to play! I had never before or have I since heard anyone play such rich full music on a pedal steel. He was playing "April in Paris" like a big band and covering all the parts at once. Bass line, horn parts, melody line. Both feet on the pedals all the time, sometime on four or five at once! Using his left pinky on the volume know, no volume pedal. I was blown away by what he was doing. Thumb sweeps across all 8 strings playing lush chords and they in a heartbeat playing Django like lead lines over a moving bass line. When he finished playing, I could not speak for a few seconds at least, when I could, I ask him "What tuning is that?".
He explained it to me like this, "it's a Bb dim chord stacked on top of its self. Each pedal raises one string 1/2 half step. One pedal per string." I had a million more questions I wanted to ask him, but the "wanna-be" singer came out of the house where the rehersal where I was supose to be at was and hollered for me to "get back over here".
I told Vince that I would like to talk some more about his tuning and playing later if he didn't mind. With the easy grace of the Hawaiian people and with a big smile he said
"sure, anytime". When my rehersal was finally over after going over "truck drivin man" a few hundred times and I could get out of there, his garage door was closed and his car was gone from the driveway. I went back a few times and could never catch him at home and then the last time I went by I found out he had moved and I never got to talk to him again, but the few min's I spent that day will stay with me forever as one of the best musical days of my life because I heard and saw a truly original player of enormous talent and feeling.
I spent many hours with paper and pencil working out just what you can do with his 8stg Bb dim tuning. Believe me, it's all there.
I'd have to say Vince Acuna "redefined PSG for me that day.
JE:-)>[This message was edited by Jim Eaton on 08 November 2002 at 02:15 PM.][This message was edited by Jim Eaton on 08 November 2002 at 02:18 PM.]

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 8 Nov 2002 2:31 pm

Donny: Individual effort, certainly. There is no such thing as "the collective", except on Star Trek (the Borg). [PS. thanks for your clarification below]

David: Yes, I'm at a "pause" right now (not a "rut"!), and I'm working the SGF a bit as a result.

Jim: Bless you for a most engaging and inspirational story. Vince obviously took fork (b) in his path. His copedant was "pure", and I like that.[This message was edited by Tom Gorr on 08 November 2002 at 10:11 PM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 8 Nov 2002 5:19 pm

Tom, shame on you! Collective is the adjective that modifies the noun effort in my sentence, and there were "collective efforts" long before Gene Roddenberry.

That's how the pyramids came about. [This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 08 November 2002 at 05:21 PM.]

Nathan Delacretaz · Post by **Nathan Delacretaz** » 8 Nov 2002 5:53 pm

Tom, your point is very powerful:

So, you can:
a)tune up to E9, and copy a bunch of licks, and grow your style that way, or

b) detune all your strings, disassemble all raises and lowers, and "design" the instrument of your dreams, without the incumberances of prior knowledge.

What you choose to do on this will forever alter the course of your musical endeavors.


Your choice "b)" would take a tremendous amount of courage and ability - the very idea of casting off preconceived notions is always worth practicing, I think, even while learning the basics of the traditional methods. I like to think you can know the rules and selectively break them too - better to have all the tools in the belt, so to speak...and aside from the raw ingenuity it would take to fully pursue "b)", I think there's something gratifying and encouraging about those first few milestones (those times you try and actually cop something that REALLY sounds like STEEL) that propels you and encourages you to move forward...so the traditional sound/approach gives you something to measure yourself against...then again, I could grudgingly admit that I'm rationalizing since I know I don't have the free time and energy to even undertake "b)"

p.s. - vacationed up near Edmonton last month and loved your part of the world.

Bill Llewellyn · Post by **Bill Llewellyn** » 8 Nov 2002 9:59 pm

As a newbie who experiences periodic episodes of fear and doubt...

Nathan, as a newbie, your fear and doubt episodes are only periodic? I've been hacking at the psg for three years now, still clearly a newbie, and my fear/doubt status is continuous and unbroken!!

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 8 Nov 2002 11:31 pm

David Mason, I'm extremely flattered to be mentioned in thre same sentence as Doug and Paul, but the truth is those guys are light years ahead of me. I'm basically just an average mid-level E9 bar band player. That's all. The strengths of my CDs are in the music I recorded, and the fact that through the magic of recording studio trickery I can create the illusion of being a great player on tape. But that's exactly what it is- an illusion. My CDs are the result of thousands of seperate recordings of tiny parts, sometimes just consisting of one or two notes, carefully edited together in such a way as to sound like I actually played all that stuff.

The truth is I can't really play any of it, and I'm not nearly as good as people think I am.

L.A. has some real super players. J.D, of course and our fellow forumites Doug "Earnest Bovine" Livingstone and Mike Johnstone. I am not even fit to shine their shoes.

Gil Berry · Post by **Gil Berry** » 9 Nov 2002 9:50 pm

Mike, I've never heard you play (live, that is), but I think thee protests too much! Even if what you say is the entire truth (which I doubt), your finished album is proof of your talent. BTW, I know you like MSAs, but you also play a certain Australian horn....Is it just for show, like the prize rifle hanging on the wall that never gets fired?[This message was edited by Gil Berry on 09 November 2002 at 09:51 PM.]

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 10 Nov 2002 1:06 am

you also play a certain Australian horn...

Gil, I have no idea what you're talking about. The only Austrailian steel I know of is Anapeg, and I've never even seen one close up. I have always played MSA steel guitars and probably always will.

As for hearing me play live, when I play country music I sound just like every other country bar band player. Better than some, but not nearly as good as many others. [This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 10 November 2002 at 04:55 AM.]

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 10 Nov 2002 3:10 am

For several kazillion years carpenters have used the old standard saw and hammer. Some can create and build the most incredible structures with exotic finishing. Some cannot even build the most simplistic of designs, yet they all use the same common tools. I would think that the best carpenters or cabinet makers around would be grateful that someone invented these tools so that they wouldn't have too! Now all they have to do is use their gift and create.

tp
mica covered piece of wood with wires and some polished aluminum here and there..

Gil Berry · Post by **Gil Berry** » 10 Nov 2002 9:21 am

Sorry, Mike - I got you confused with Jim Palenscar down in Oceanside. Please excuse an old man for failing memory (can't remember how to do half the licks I used to do, either....sheesh!)

John Gretzinger · Post by **John Gretzinger** » 11 Nov 2002 9:27 am

Mike -

I've heard you play - OK, you ain't JD or Doug, Mike or Al - but then again who is?

No, you ARE Mike Perlowin who pushes the steel guitar into new areas and does it well.

Besides, you have fun with what you are doing, and that's really important.

Oh yes, you are definately fit to shine their shoes.

jdg

------------------
MSA D-10 w/Nashville 400
'63 Gibson Hummingbird
16/15c Hammered Dulcimer

Michael Frede · Post by **Michael Frede** » 11 Nov 2002 2:04 pm

How about b0b's C Diatonic setup?

Post by **Joey Ace** » 11 Nov 2002 4:12 pm

... or the Sacred Steelers tunings.

Chuck Campbell described his pedals as being like an "autoharp". Different pedals produce different chords.

It's too bad Steel is sterotyped as a "Country Instrument". I believe it got that rep because it was so good at it. Very much like an actor who becomes identified with a certain role. It's hard to break out of that pigeon hole, but it can be done.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 12 Nov 2002 3:44 am

Yes it's true the Pedal Steel has been stereotyped to fit the Country Music mold,but that is not necessarily a bad thing in my opinion..( weak as it may be ) .

Is a Fender Strat much different, it has been defined by it's unique out of phase tone. Yes it can be played for Country, Blues and rock..but not many straight ahead Jazz dudes are playing on a Strat , we may have noticed. The tone gets old..especially if you play it on every song. But it is great no doubt. AND..the combo of the Les Paul and the Marshall stack, thank you Eric..now theres a defined sound as well. Blues, Rock, yes indeed..Country? I don't think so... Jazz, Classical ? Yipes..No way Jose' ...
Now how about those fine big body hollow Gibsons, The Jazz guys eat em' up..BUT..Rock? nahh..Blues..yes a little..Country? No way..

ya see, the Pedal Steel is not the only defined Instrument out there..it is defined yes, but so are many others. It's just part of the defining musical culture.

We are what we eat ..we play what we play

the rest of the world doesn't know what they are missing.

tp[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 12 November 2002 at 03:50 AM.]

John Kavanagh · Post by **John Kavanagh** » 12 Nov 2002 9:13 am

The current setup is certainly biased towards a certain style of playing, in the same way that the piano is biased towards C major, but people always find ways to get new sounds if they want them.

Still, if we were going to rethink the instrument from the ground up, some kind of more open arrangement might make sense. I would like some kind of diatonic arrangement myself, with the pedals acting more or less as in b0b's setup to change the mode.

An extended thirds tuning, either a long diminished chord like Vince Acuna's (symmetrical, all minor thirds) or one alternating major and minor thirds might work well too. I tried the major-minor one for awhile, but found it hard to get away from the minor-seventh/major ninth sound. The diminished tuning with one pedal per string sounds pretty good. On a 10 or 12 string guitar you'd gain some range. For solo playing, I think two diatonic necks (one a bass neck) has a lot of possibilities.

How would you work the volume pedal if you needed both feet for string pedals? A knee lever? The pinky of your picking hand, or maybe a wrist or elbow lever for that hand?

Let's think outside the box...A chin strap! noo...a laser pointer strapped to your forehead? It was obviously an evolutionary mistake to lose our tails. [This message was edited by John Kavanagh on 12 November 2002 at 09:15 AM.]

Andy Alford · Post by **Andy Alford** » 12 Nov 2002 9:46 am

Julian Tharpe