Fender 400 Local Sale - Should I Buy It?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 23 Oct 2012 2:35 pm

Chris LeDrew wrote:Thanks guys! Did I hear somewhere that the earlier version without the roller nuts has the superior tone? I remember it being said in a secretive way.

Not to be argumentative, but just as a point of info, having owned and played both, I don't find that to be the case. Fender took great pains to design the roller bridge and nut to have little or no effect on the sound. IME, the ones with rollers stay in tune better, and the strings last longer.

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 23 Oct 2012 2:45 pm

I too swapped the fixed bridge and nut for rollers and found no change in tone.

I agree with you too about cleaning up the dirt.

Before

After

Benjamin Franz · Post by **Benjamin Franz** » 23 Oct 2012 3:55 pm

Speaking of which, I'm on the hunt for a roller bridge for my 400! Anyone?

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 23 Oct 2012 7:09 pm

Thanks so much to all of you for your input! It's several hours away from me so I can't readily take a look, but I plan to contact the owner with some questions. I will report back!

Paul Redmond · Post by **Paul Redmond** » 24 Oct 2012 10:42 pm

I got a basket-case 400 from ebb quite a while ago. Someone had tried to re-finish it not once, but twice. It took a lot of TLC to get the wood in top shape again as someone had grossly over-used a vibrating sander on it. It now has a pearl black, clear-coat lacquer paint job, and the silver frame is satin-finished.
Someone had tried to make new hog rings for the changer and they all ended up being different in shape and size....probably a "pliers" job. I made a small bending fixture and used 1/16" diameter #308 stainless steel welding rod to make uniform-sized new ones and bent the "front" ends upward to eliminate the sharp kink in the end of each string. I made them just long enough to allow for shorter string length and get the winding/twist of the strings right up almost touching the solid bridge. I retained the grooved solid nut.
I used George L's stainless strings and dropped the tuning to D# instead of E. I just finished it up in time for a gig last Friday where it got a 4-hour workout....no broken strings so far.
I left the cable drive on the four pedals, but added 6 KL's which are all rodded with 3/32" SS rod.
I was able to get a new pedal rack decal from Bobbe Seymour. I painted the pedal rack pearl black also, but left the center 1/3 of the rack natural maple.
I just shot pics of it today with my 35mm. I'll get them on the Forum ASAP.
Killer tone, repetitive accuracy, reasonable weight...what more could anyone ask for in a steel? I assume it was made in late '57 or early '58....serial #00179. It's got the pedals with the flat metal springs and two screws.
FWIW to make the lower action easier without changing the balance springs, I modified the puller on two of the four pedals by drilling a new cable hook hole .200" above the existing one, then ground away enough material to clear it. These pieces are heat-treated, so you'll have use a milling machine and a carbide cutter to make the holes. It sure did the trick and didn't make the pull very much longer.
PRR

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 26 Oct 2012 1:40 pm

My '57 Strat in,,, well, I was told once by a collector that it was San Marino Blue, but the general consensus is that it is Lake Placid Blue. San Marino is quite different.

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 27 Oct 2012 11:16 am

I just received this information from the guy who was there when it all happened.......

"Fender Never produced a Lake Placid Blue 1000 or 400"

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 27 Oct 2012 1:43 pm

Dean Parks has a LPB 400. Can't say for sure if it's a refin or not, but it sure didn't look like one to me...

So, Chris... did you buy it?

Dan Carey · Post by **Dan Carey** » 27 Oct 2012 2:02 pm

I have called Jody Carver...a long time Fender sales rep and a good friend.............as HowardR states

There were no Lake Placid Blue steel guitars manufactured.........The Only Lake Placid guitar was a Fender pedal 2000 and was special done by Leo Fender for the late Carl West who was an employee of Fender...There have been no others.

Thank You.

Dan Carey

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 27 Oct 2012 3:19 pm

Jody would know, I guess. Dean's must be a refin.
Too bad they didn't do more custom color steels...they sure look cool, refin or not.
I think the slickest Fender I've seen is that Candy Apple Red 800 that's in the '66 catalog.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 28 Oct 2012 6:50 am

I also received a message from Jody about this guitar, who makes a convincing argument to me that there were no custom-color blue Fender 400 steels. If there is anybody who knows beyond any speculation, it's Jody, in my estimation. He also stated that this looks like a refin in a different blue than Lake Placid, and I agree. He says something close to Sonic Blue, and that makes more sense to me. Of course, as he points out, a refin may well be a different paint mix than a true Fender custom color. The effects of age and photo lighting must also be considered.

I've thought about this guitar a bit. Of course, I'd prefer to have any original Fender guitar in its original finish, regardless of color. But I have to admit that this is one cool-looking guitar, refin or not. So maybe even if the price is, 'by the book', technically a bit high for a refin - I tend to agree with Donny's estimate - if it was otherwise in real nice shape, I might well be tempted. A couple hundred bucks one way or another - how many times do we blow a couple hundred bucks on nothing?

Let me relate a short story. I was lucky enough to be the first guy looking at the For Sale forum a year and a half ago when Rolene Brumley put up Tom's '69 Tele (I gather it was bought in '70, but researching the neck markings, the neck is clearly a '69). It appeared to be almost an ocean green color from the photo, and it was impossible to tell whether or not the finish was original. Of course, being a huge Tom Brumley fan and primarily a Tele player on guitar, I bought it. No representation was made about the originality of the finish, I didn't expect it was original, it was priced accordingly, and when I got it, I was not remotely disappointed when I verified that the body only was refinished in what turns out to be a color very close to what Chrysler was using as a dark slate blue/gray in the early 70s (I was at Chrysler in the 70s, I saw it on a lot of Barracudas). That guitar is magic, light as a feather, and looks, plays, and sounds great. Sometimes, a guitar transcends its technical intrinsic market value. Of course, it's best to be able to play it, but sometimes I roll the dice. Money isn't everything, in fact, most of my best playing/sounding guitars were not great financial 'investments' - they just happen to be the ones I like most.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 28 Oct 2012 11:23 am

If I had the money and it wasn't broken, I would buy it.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 28 Oct 2012 4:43 pm

Thanks all again for this great info! The extent of knowledge here is incredible.

Skip, I sent the seller a message but didn't get a reply yet. I will attempt another message tomorrow if I don't hear anything by then. I'm going to see if he's coming to St. John's with it; he lives a few hours away and it's hard for me to get out there during the weekdays.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 29 Oct 2012 4:16 pm

I talked to the guy. We are haggling on a price. He's being vague and trying to get me to quote my highest offer, while of course I'm trying to get him to quote his lowest. No case. Not sure what to do. I'd probably just set it up and leave it anyway, so that's not a deal-breaker for me.

I'll will update with any news. Thanks again everyone for chiming in!

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Fender 400 Local Sale - Should I Buy It?

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