Sierra pedal stops

John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

I had a problem with one of the pedal stops on my Sierra last weekend, and I'm wondering if maybe the stops are installed backwards. Here's a picture showing two of the pedal stops. They're the white nylon disks near the top of the photo:

It's hard to see from this angle, but on at least one of my pedals the stop contacts the metal not on its flat surface, but rather very near the edge of the metal where the fitting for the pedal rod is. The problem I had was that the metal slipped past the nylon stop, wedging the pedal to the floor. Luckily, it didn't happen during a gig.

I noticed that the Sierra technical manual shows the nylon part pointing in the other direction:

That would solve the problem. The nylon part would collide with the screw to its right in the picture, but I could add a little space for that with a couple of washers.

If you own a Sierra, could you take a look and tell me which direction your pedal stops are pointing?

Thanks,
John

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Not quite sure what you mean by backwards. Sierra stops are eccentric shaped and rotate on the screw to set the pedal/lever travel, so there's no other adjustment unless the travel has been set too long.

If it's any help, here are a couple shots from the one I had a couple years ago.

John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

Thanks, Jerry. It looks like yours is the same as mine.

Here's what I meant by "backwards". In my photo and in yours, the bulk of the nylon stop is to the left of its off-center mounting screw. But in the Sierra diagram, the bulk of the stop is to the right of the screw.

With the stop positioned the way it is on my guitar, the metal piece hits the stop like this:

With the pedal travel adjusted "right" for my B pedal, the corner of the metal piece comes very close to slipping right on past the stop.

John

Glenn Uhler · From: Trenton, New Jersey, USA

John,
Flip the pedal stop cam over to the right, so the fat part of the cam rests on top of the stop. It will look like the cam position in the instructions, not like your sketch. That way it can't jam!
Glenn
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1974 Marlen S-12 1968 Tele 1969 Martin D-35H

John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

Glenn Uhler · From: Trenton, New Jersey, USA

Hmm! I see what you mean. Is it possible the pedal crank moved a little on the cross shaft? The pedal crank on the left looks a little higher than the one on the right. Are they both resting on the "pedal up" stops the same? Make sure the big bolt holding the pedal crank to the cross shaft is tight.
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1974 Marlen S-12 1968 Tele 1969 Martin D-35H

Tom Campbell · From: Houston, Texas, USA

Is the screw that goes through the hole in the nylon cam set and screwed straight into the hole i the rail? The cam on the right (in your picture) appears to be at a slight angle. If the cams are mounted properly (per the manual illustration) they will operate OK and require no washer, etc. (rigging).

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

You should not have to space the stop away from the rail. These stops are designed to rotate either CW or CCW enough to allow enough travel for the pedal to complete the changes that are attached to it.

Perhaps someone has rotated it more than it needs to be, or it may have slipped.

In your diagram, it would appear that the eccentric could be rotated CCW enough to make proper contact with the pedal rod connector/crank assembly and still allow sufficient travel for your pedal. Some re-adjustment at the changer end would likely be required. Make sure that none of your pull rod bell cranks have slipped on the round cross shaft also.

Unless you have some really odd and long pulls beyond the scope of Sierrs's extensive copedents, it should be achievable as these guitars are some of the most mechanically precise ever engineered.

[sorry, didn't mean to be parrot Tom and Glenn's comments, just didn't see them before posting.]

Larry Behm · From: Mt Angel, Or 97362

John we did not have time but you could cut the black set screws shorter or just buy shorter screws THEN when you turn the cam the other way it could work without catching on the end of the bell crank.

Those black screws are just there to help steady the rail, a little shorter would be ok.

If all else fails, we use to sand the cam smaller for one of the knee levers and this too could work. Try to make it the same radius as the original.

Larry Behm
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'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Stereo Steel amp, Telonics 15” speaker.

Phone: 971-219-8533

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Just loosen the allen-head on that "Cam", and rotate it into the perfect positon for that stop.
Sometimes they come loose, and when you pushed the pedal and it got hung-up, you could have easily rotated the cam 180 degrees out of positon.
The Cam makes it infinitely adjustable within the min/max diameter of the cam.
They are solid stops that feel great when adjusted correctly.
I have seen them crack, and then they won't stay tight. So check for any crack down in the coutersunk part that the Allen head sits in.
You can make them yourself with a slice of a wooden dowell, or teflron or delrin, and a Dremmell tool. I have found something close at Ace Hardware.

John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I found what I think will be a good solution to the problem. I took some pictures along the way to show you. First, here is the cam in its original position with the pedal not pressed and then pressed:

As you can see, the edge of the pedal crank is what contacts the cam. It even puts a groove into the cam over time:

Today I realized that I could move the cam to a better spot by simply swapping it with the set screw that's to its right. Here's the result, again with the pedal not pressed and then pressed:

Now the cam contacts the pedal crank at a much better spot. I've tested it and it works great. The stop is nice and firm, and there's no way the pedal is going to get stuck like it did before. I'll probably change the other seven pedals the same way.

John

Tom Campbell · From: Houston, Texas, USA

Good thinking!!! Nice job. Should be solid as a rock.
At one time Sierra used aluminum cams...I have a few in my parts box. I guess they were not cost efficient (nylon apparently easier to fabricate).

Larry Behm · From: Mt Angel, Or 97362

The old story, where there is a will there is a way, proved true once again. Good job John. A few more adjustments and then off we go to the top of the guitar for the real fun.

Larry Behm
_________________
'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Stereo Steel amp, Telonics 15” speaker.

Phone: 971-219-8533

Craig Schwartz · From: McHenry IL

Wow , I didnt know you could do that.... Ive had this problem before and I think I drilled another hole further out in the nylon somehow , but now (a year later) I`m going to do it your way,
Thanks John

Note: Slippage on that a or b pedal, I believe was my original problem, once in a while I got a little Hot on the pedal, have you noticed any slippage since you fixed it ? Did the Nylon cam stay put?

Craig
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SO MANY LURES, SO LITTLE TIME....

John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

Craig, I've only gotten about 3 hours of playing time since I made that change. But so far, it's holding up fine and there's been no slippage at all. Judging from the feel of it and the way the pedal crank hits the cam, I would be very surprised if it gave me any further problems.

John

Billy Tonnesen · From: R.I.P., Buena Park, California

Years ago on my Sierra 10:12 I could never get the nylon stops adjusted right. I called Mr. Christian at that time and he sent me stops made of some kdnd of composite and they solved my problem.
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Sacramento Western Swing Society Hall of Fame, 1992

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Does this material provide a firm and consistent stop? I tried a Sierra steel at NAMM about 20 years ago, and the raised pitch would raise further if when I pushed harder on the pedal. Don Christiansen said "don't push so hard".

John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

The firmness and consistency of the stops has never been an issue for me at all on my Sierra. My tuner barely budges even when I'm pressing the pedal hard enough to worry about breaking something.

John

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