The unintended consequences of excessive volume

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 5 Oct 2012 1:47 pm

Don’t let the humor fool you, I’m looking for serious answers to this chronic problem.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 5 Oct 2012 2:43 pm

Tinnitus, hearing loss, pissed off bandmembers and leader, angry clubowner dealing with complaints from bar staff and customers, disappointed audience members leaving the club, band losing gig.

Other than that, it's all good.

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 5 Oct 2012 5:07 pm

Herb you nailed it but what do you do to overcome the "my amp don't sound good at a lower volume" "I just can't get dynamics out of my drum set at a lower volume" "this is as low as I can get" etc..

Andy Vance · Post by **Andy Vance** » 5 Oct 2012 5:19 pm

I probably shouldn't weigh in on this being newer to forum but IMO you aren't playing with like-minded professional musicians. If you can't play with dynamics or get your tone without my ears bleeding, I really don't want to be on stage with you anyway.

Andy

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 5 Oct 2012 8:02 pm

Andy sounds like a professional good point to me.

Folks could learn a lot about volume and much more listening to me on my little Stage One .
Here is an excellent little sound bit example of perfect volume, pitch, flawless execution and tasteful soloing in spite of having to cut through and stay in front of a run a way train. I’m telling you IMHO Folks just don’t know who they are dealing with here.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 5 Oct 2012 11:03 pm

Get a drum machine, then everything can be turned down to a comfortable level.

It's very difficult playing steel on stage with a manic drummer, and can cause permanent damage to the steel players hearing.

Stephen Cowell · Post by **Stephen Cowell** » 6 Oct 2012 1:12 am

... so we're to take for granted that just playing that tape for them didn't help? Sounds like a garage band with steel guitar on top... absolutely no dynamics between vox/no vox/solos. I've noticed playing outdoors makes this worse, the drums and bass are especially more used to hearing themselves off of the walls around them.

One big problem with trying to lead from behind a sit-down instrument... you can't get in front of them, look them in the eye, and crouch or otherwise telegraph a dynamic change. You can start playing softer, they look at you like you're some kind of dumb*ss, now *you're* messing up the balance... if they even notice.

One thing I didn't hear that I expected to... the six-string being too loud. That bodes well... they're usually the ones that are dependent on silly things like speaker breakup and guitar-amp hookup. Perhaps he was the one trying to sing over the noise?

I have plenty of experience with the one-volume rhythm section... just hope you're not married to them, or otherwise related (old buddies in a dad band, my situation)... there are better musicians to play with out there, or you can try to educate the ones you have. Making someone use touch can take a while... it's a skill to be practiced like any other. First thing... even when barreling ahead on a fast tune, *play softer* when the vocals are on. If you can get them to at least do that then you've given them a gear besides overdrive.

Also, work up some kind of signal (tilt of the head, throw a shoe, whatever) for dynamic change. Like I said, easier when driving a six-string. Hunch shoulders, pained expression... you know it when you see it, if you're watching for it.

Be aware... *somebody's* got the focus... if it's not you, then *hang back* some to give air around the one that does. Start everyone playing with *touch*, so there's somewhere to go when it's really time to rawk.

Bill L. Wilson · Post by **Bill L. Wilson** » 6 Oct 2012 7:51 am

I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!!! Do you think it's my 100watt Marshall full stack and Gibson Les Paul on 11????? And actually, I have played that loud a few times in the last 50yrs. And really, the amp only goes to 10, so it was one, (less louder) as opposed to Nigel Tufnel, in Spinal Tap. I can still hear, I just can't understand what people are saying. Go figure!

Bill L. Wilson · Post by **Bill L. Wilson** » 6 Oct 2012 7:52 am

I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!!! Do you think it's my 100watt Marshall full stack and Gibson Les Paul on 11????? And actually, I have played that loud a few times in the last 50yrs. And really, the amp only goes to 10, so it was one, (less louder) as opposed to Nigel Tufnel, in Spinal Tap. I can still hear, I just can't understand what people are saying. Go figure!

Bill L. Wilson · Post by **Bill L. Wilson** » 6 Oct 2012 7:56 am

I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!!! Do you think it's my 100watt Marshall full stack and Gibson Les Paul on 11????? And actually, I have played that loud a few times in the last 50yrs. And really, the amp only goes to 10, so it was one, (less louder) as opposed to Nigel Tufnel, in Spinal Tap. I can still hear, I just can't understand what people are saying. Go figure!

Bob Mainwaring · Post by **Bob Mainwaring** » 6 Oct 2012 7:58 am

Like as been said many times before - a drum machine can be purchased anywhere, never slows down, never speeds up and never needs paying, or a drink bought for it.
It'll take a couple of seconds to punch in the beats and tempo......and that's it!!

All Z.B.est.

Bob.

Aaron Smith · Post by **Aaron Smith** » 6 Oct 2012 8:45 am

yes great idea! in addition to a drum machine, program and sequence all the guitar,bass,vocal and steel parts together so everything is perfect,hit "play" and then go sit at the bar.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 6 Oct 2012 8:45 am

Here is an excellent little sound bit example of perfect volume, pitch, flawless execution and tasteful soloing in spite of having to cut through and stay in front of a run a way train.

Sounds more like a runaway train wreck.

My advice would be to take the culprits to a Hag or George Strait concert to illustrate your volume issues.
They are the gold standard. If the offenders don't get it, your only recourse is to run screaming from that band...

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 6 Oct 2012 9:27 am

I forgot what I wanted to say.

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 6 Oct 2012 12:54 pm

Bill L. Wilson wrote:I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!!! Do you think it's my 100watt Marshall full stack and Gibson Les Paul on 11????? And actually, I have played that loud a few times in the last 50yrs. And really, the amp only goes to 10, so it was one, (less louder) as opposed to Nigel Tufnel, in Spinal Tap. I can still hear, I just can't understand what people are saying. Go figure!

You can say THAT again!

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 6 Oct 2012 4:10 pm

...but what do you do to overcome the "my amp don't sound good at a lower volume?

Find another lead man. If that's not practical, just pack up and go home. (That's what I did tonight

)

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 6 Oct 2012 4:25 pm

Donny...been there ! Done that !!

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 6 Oct 2012 7:41 pm

That reminds me of the first steel player I played with in a band. I was playing lead guitar then. I lost count of how many times he packed up during the gig a went home.
It wasn’t all about volume it was any little thing that would set him off.
He would say don’t ever play the guitar like that again while I’m singing. The next time he would say we’ve played that song a thousand times, why did you do it different this time.?
One time he set up, tuned up and tore down and left before the gig ever started for no reason at all that I could tell
Now that really impressed me and I was sure all PSG players were the same and I just knew I had to get me one of them pedal steels so I too could be an arrogant prck.
If you’ve never packed up and left before the gig is over you’re a wimpy disgrace to all of us.

Todd Brown · Post by **Todd Brown** » 6 Oct 2012 9:39 pm

Lmao!!

I said it in another thread, I've NEVER met anyone that played music who acted like an arrogant a**hole. We're some of the nicest, classiest people you'd ever wanna meet.

Daniel Policarpo · Post by **Daniel Policarpo** » 7 Oct 2012 1:22 am

Anytime your drummer's got a steel cage to keep his skins from bouncing around, you might figure it's going to get pretty loud. It's too bad cause the beat itself had a good thing going, like aTexas Tornadoes thing in there. Ear fed monitors for the drummer? louder monitors all around? A blowhorn. It seems once the sound barrier is broken, there it stays for while.

Alan Tanner · Post by **Alan Tanner** » 7 Oct 2012 3:02 am

Sounds like a jam I went to........

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 7 Oct 2012 4:26 am

... Exactly Alan !
The amp is not the problem, it's the operator.

Brett Lanier · Post by **Brett Lanier** » 7 Oct 2012 10:23 am

I have a friend that is a very, very loud guitar player. So loud, that his picks say his name on one side and "played too loud" on the other.

His loudness has changed my views about what is acceptable, and as loud as he is, I find it very easy and fun to exchange ideas with him on the bandstand, more so than pretty much every other guitarist I play with who plays at a reasonable volume.

Also, he is one of the most successful musicians I know. Usually, there is one guy in the band that hates him by the end of the show, but for the most part, the crowd goes nuts, and his playing elevates the music. It helps that he's a great listener and fantastic player. Very exciting to watch.

One thing that bugs me more than someone being too loud is a guitar player who is constantly strumming his tele. When that is happening during a steel solo, I'll just put my bar down and look back up at him.

Gary Lee Gimble · Post by **Gary Lee Gimble** » 7 Oct 2012 10:36 am

put my bar down and look back up at him

Does he reciprocate with a mirroring look, gets the message, ignores you...?

Brett Lanier · Post by **Brett Lanier** » 7 Oct 2012 10:43 am

I think he does get the message. What he doesn't get is that a steel doesn't need a ton of support when it's time for a solo. We've got ten strings! We can do so much more when the "supporting" players aren't hoggin' up all the harmony. I'm perfectly happy playing with just the bass and drums. Add a piano and I'd rather not not hear a guitar at all. Especially the two highest strings on a telecaster.

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