Half stop on p/p

Glenn Suchan · Post by **Glenn Suchan** » 21 Oct 2002 4:31 am

I have some questions for Emmons p/p players:

If you have the "X" pedal on your guitar do you have it on a knee lever (ie) LVK? How does this work if you want to play a "pedals down" major triad and go to the minor of that triad. On my all-pull Sierra I have the "X" pedal on my RKL and I just engage for that change. Since raises overide lowers on the push/pull changers, how can this same arrangement be acomplished? Has any one put a half-stop on the "A" pedal, 5th string?

I'm interested in all coments on this. Thanks in advance and...

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 21 Oct 2002 6:18 am

As you accurately pointed out, if you hit the Bb lever then press that A pedal you get a C# -- THE RAISE PULL PREDOMINATES. There are no factory installed split tuning options on a push-pull. Sorry. Push-pull players are usually very good half-pedalers.

I know there is at least one guitar that Buddy Emmons once owned with split tuning -- I believe Dave Robbins owns that guitar. See this link .

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 21 October 2002 at 07:27 AM.]

Glenn Suchan · Post by **Glenn Suchan** » 21 Oct 2002 7:19 am

Hi Larry,
Thanks for your response. You're one of the folks I was most hoping to respond. I am in the process of acquiring an Emmons S12 p/p with a factory universal copedant (7 pedals, 4 knees) and there are a few alterations I'd like to make. One is a half-stop on the "a" pedal/5th string. I ain't too good at half pedalin' (heavyfoot syndrome). Since you've done extensive alterations to the "Beast" what do you think of the "A" pedal half-stop? Is it doable/practical? Would ther be excessive pedal travel to present a problem?

Keep on pickin', amigo!
Glenn

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 21 Oct 2002 7:50 am

Glenn
You can get the minor chord in that position by moving the bar up one fret, letting up on the foot pedals and engaging the E-lower lever, or you can half-pedal. Half-pedalling is simply a technique that can be acquired if you put your mind to it.

A PP is operationally a different machine than an AP. On a PP, include half-pedalling and finding positions formerly available on guitars with split-tuning capability under the topic "learning to play the instrument." It's one of the trade-offs that you have to decide if you want, based on how much you
use it.

------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Glenn Suchan · Post by **Glenn Suchan** » 21 Oct 2002 8:09 am

Good Mornin' Herb!
I haven't ruled out half-pedalin'. I do use the "slide-up-one-fret/engage the E-Eb knee. I also slide up three frets and hit my LVK which raises the 4th string E to F#. This gives the equivalent of the "B/C" pedal combo when used with the "A/B" pedals. But ocassionally I like to use the "X" pedal because it has a more subtle effect. Thanks for the advice!

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 21 Oct 2002 11:47 am

Glenn,
If you do any speedpicking you'll feel like you're drivin' a Mack truck if you add a 'hitch' in the middle between B and C#. Think about how many times you use your A pedal during the course of a night. Think about every time feeling that spring kick in -- not to mention stiffening the action. I'd advise leaving it alone and playing around it like Herb suggests. It's really easier to half-pedal most p-p's since they usually have longer throw. I have a hard time getting my Fessy to half-pedal accurately (so I just split it on that guitar).

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 21 Oct 2002 11:51 am

Would it not be possible to install a split finger somewhere on the Apedal pullrod that will shorten the pull to a Cnote instead of C# just as if it was an all/pull guitar.

Bobby Bowman · Post by **Bobby Bowman** » 21 Oct 2002 11:58 am

Glenn,
A half stop can certainly be put on the A pedal. However, I do not reccomend it. It basically will destroy the good feel of that pedal. It is a pedal that you use a lot and what little you would use it for the half tone is, in my opinion, not worth it.
Learning to "HALF PEDAL" is the best way to go and you learn that by practiceing, just as you would to learn a lick or a song.
BB

------------------
If you play 'em, play 'em good!
If you build 'em, build 'em good!

Glenn Suchan · Post by **Glenn Suchan** » 21 Oct 2002 12:34 pm

Larry: Good point! Most of the times I use the "X" lever are for slow passages. So, what you, Herb, Bobby B. suggest makes very good sense. It's been almost ten years since I owned my last p/p. That didn't have a half-stop on it anywhere and I didn't miss it then. I can probably do without them on this one.

Bobby, thanks for "chimin' in"! I'm takin' everybodies advice to heart. Seems like ya'll are on the same page on this question. 'Guess that's why I never heard of a half-stop on the "A" pedal...thought I was bein' smart.

BTW: Bobby, a couple of weeks ago I had the distinct pleasure of meeting your lovely wife Toni, at the Austin County Fair in Bellville. I was there with the Kevin Fowler Band and she came up to the stage and introduced herself. What a nice lady. Tell her I say "howdy!"

Delivery of the S12 p/p is still a few days away, but once I receive it I'll probably have more questions regarding E9/B6 on a push pull. Keep the responses coming. I appreciate everyones suggestions and advice.

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 22 Oct 2002 5:50 am

Glenn,
My general advice is to keep the setup as simple as possible. Don't raise that 12th string on the A pedal unless you really gotta -- and there are other compromises you may find you can do without. The Beast only has 6x6 and 25 pulls and that setup has it covered, for me.

You'll love it. I wish I'd tried putting a universal tuning on a push-pull long ago.

rhcarden · Post by **rhcarden** » 22 Oct 2002 7:57 am

You can put a split on a p/p.

Put a heavy spring on the pull rod that will allow the pull finger to be pushed back when in the C# possition. Then adjust the collar on the push rod (changer end) so that the end of the push rod pushes the pull finger back to get the C. It will take a few tries to get the C in tune, but when you do, weld it.

It works like this:

The push rod collar hits the lowering finger to give you the Bb and the end of the push rod hits the pull finger (when pulled to C#) to give you the C.

Note! This does not effect the pedal action. The cost is about 20 cents for a spring.

------------------
Bob Carden 66 Emmons P/P 8/9
BMI 13 string 7/7

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 22 Oct 2002 9:34 am

Very cool Bob!

Now why didn't I think of that.