Really Attracting New Players

[Chuck Thompson]

Not to be confused with the surreal debacle with a similar title. I would like to discuss actually what attracts new players to steel guitar.

Im a newer player myself (52 y/o with about 5 1/2 years of playing pedal steel) Im thinking that old farts like me that have an attraction to classic country pedal steel guitar have a pretty good leg up with this forum and the advice and teaching materials available here and elsewhere.

What about younger people who have never heard of Jerry Byrd Don Helms Alvino Rey and heaven forbid Lloyd Green and Buddy Emmons?

Do not Fret my friends

Matt Bradford http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/posting. ... topic&f=15

Kaki King http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GObgUs1dHs

Forum member Greg Vincent with Cake http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2JBIAST ... re=related

Susan Alcorn http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x5UEEbnVQU

Jon Graboff with Ryan Adams http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dty4Jk0eERA

Forum member John Neff with DBT's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9odW-u7UZE

Twenty something Forum member Brett Robinson with Whitey Morgan and the 78's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp_QJ-Pq ... re=related

and last but NOT least - the work of Steelers like Lefty Schrage Dale Tiemssen Roger Miller Craig Davisom et al with the Jump Start program http://www.steelguitarjam.com/?Page=3

Some of these people approach steel guitar from a traditional viewpoint and play traditional style music - some from a traditional starting point but a slightly different context. Some are very innovative in perspective and context.

I could of course mention the great Robert Randolph Derek Trucks Ben Folds etc but they have been discussed and cussed quite a bit already along with Susan Alcorn and the others i posted here to a lesser extent.

My view is this. If we really love these instruments lets be happy that it is traveling in circles that we may not. Lets support those who are putting the steel guitar in places where people younger than us are exposed to its beauty

Im sure there are MANY others I am not aware of or didnt mention such as Leslie Erlich and also REAL ideas from others here. Please contribute - but try to avoid complaining that the current country charts dont have songs that sound like "the Other Woman" and that someone wore dirty jeans a t-shirt and knit hat onstage or that no one is pushing the virtuosity of Jerry Byrd or someone else we may adore but just isnt in the minds of younger people-- at least at this time in their experience.

[Tracy Sheehan]

IMHO i think many of the old timers forget that the steel players and music we grew up with hold no interest to the young people and when they are mentioned to a youngster you get a blank stare. Tracy

[Chuck Thompson]

Tracy - I agree with you there. Hopefully we can have some dialogue that might pry a couple minds open and have some postive constructive dialogue.

Although Im an old fart I have offpsring that are very musically interested and aware of things outside of my normal circles. It has helped keep my mind somewhat young and open in terms of music.

IMHO if someone comes along with an interest in a style of music that we may not feel such an affinity towards but they want to put some kind of steel guitar instrument in it - we should be jumping and screaming hooray!

[Ross Whitaker]

Tracy,
I tried to kinda bring this up in the other post, but it dropped like a lonely tree in the woods, so I'll post it again here.
Lots of people in my age group--I'm 30--are really attracted to older country music. I think for most of them, it feels 'authentic,' in contrast to the poppy stuff from Nashville.

[Chuck Thompson]

Ross - I sure think your view is valid and not unheard of either. I often fill in for a very traditional country band that has a drummer and lead player/singer that are thirtyish. They do old paycheck tubb songs etc. Those two play with such authenticity and reverence for old country that you can listen to them with your eyes closed and almost swear it is 1970.

Most often i work for an alt/country singer songwriter who is in his 30's and very influenced by the classics like Hank Williams - Cash - Waylon etc. Personally Im glad there are people your age and younger that feel that way and for a young steel player this place is awesome. You can actually read occasional posts from legends like Emmons - Franklin - White and others.

There are also those who arent too much into country music, classic or otherwise that love the sound of a steel guitar when they are exposed to it.

Thats why I think it is important to note people like Mike Perlowin - Susan Alcorn Kaki King and others that take the steel guitar to venues that arent as common for the instrument

[Daniel Policarpo]

Lots of people in my age group--I'm 30--are really attracted to older country music. I think for most of them, it feels 'authentic,' in contrast to the poppy stuff from Nashville.

Here in Oklahoma, as in Texas, Missouri, and places I haven't lived, there has always been a healthy "cow-punk" thing and when these kids get a little older, they start listening to more cow, and less punk. I agree with you , Ross. A lot of people are searching out more authentic music that is generated from the spirit, rather than a marketing class. Hard to think of a more emotionally charged instrument than the steel, though trumpet is up there, too , in my book.

[Aaron Jennings]

As a new steel player myself (3 months), this is one thread I feel qualified to weigh in on. I apologize in advance for the length, but I found myself here in a roundabout way. I am 27 years old, and have played six-string for about 14 years. After years of experimentation with various forms of instrumentation and performance, I became interested in yodeling and preserving roots music after doing a tribute to my great grandfather (a singing cowboy).

This lead me down a long road of hunting down obscure yodeling tunes, including work by Clif Carlisle. These tunes and Hank Sr. first got me interested in "That Sound."

Around this time I had a neighbor who talked about how he used to play out of Nashville as a steel player, owned a one of a kind PSG, and walked away from it to get out of the bar scene. He showed me a handful of videos linked from this very forum. ( I suspect this is also where he sold his 'Blue Darling')

Years later, while enquiring at a local store which specializes in vintage instruments about a banjo, I asked if they ever saw any pedal steels? They said no, only tao in 20 years. Sure enough, 3 weeks later when I came in to pick up a banjo there was a half assembled and dusty PSG set up in the showroom.

The store owner reminded me of this s forum, and offered me first dibs if I could scrape together the cash. My mind was made up immediately ( my wife took some convincing), and a short while later I joined here as a member to show my appreciation of the fine community and resources you folks have put together.

If it were not for the availability of free, high quality information about this instrument, I would likely have been too intimidated by the hurdles this instrument offers to undertake the investment.

We all find our way to this instrument through positive exposure and reinforcement. The more steel players there are producing and sharing their music, and techniques/philsophies about the instrument the more people will be exposed and come to appreciate its values.

In short, you want to know how to attract new players? This is it. Thank you to b0b, and every other member of this forum.

[Bo Legg]

I think it key here the statement that in 14 years of playing a 6 string there is no mention of a lap steel in the picture.
But when a PSG came within grasp everything changed.
Sure the SGF helps but as I said before in a related topic the key factor in Attracting New Players is being able to acquire a PSG.

[Chuck Thompson]

Bo - I am encouraged by the posts by Ross and Aaron. Its true that the steel guitar isnt cheap but with entry level guitars like Zum's Stage One - Simmons Genesis - Carter Starter etc..- the steel guitar isnt completely out of reach for everyone. Compare it to some other instruments besides guitar and the cost isnt completely out of whack and certainly not out of whack for what it takes to design and build.

I agree that this forum of b0b's is an incredible source. I dont think that the value of this forum can be over stressed. Certainly people can be attracted to steel guitar before they can afford one. Ive met a couple people over the years that fell in love with the instrument and saved and saved until they could afford one. I wasnt able to pull cash out of my pocket and buy my G2 the day i decided that i wanted to give steel guitar a serious stab. Also in the opening post I mentioned the work of the Jump Start Program guys and what those people are doing along with those that donate to them.

I dont know that the instrument will ever be produced on the level of a standard guitar and that means that it will cost more. I may be wrong but I think the key factor is just being exposed to the instrument in a way that tickles the ears and moves the heart. As Daniel said - It is hard to find another instrument that can be so emotionally charged

[Bud Angelotti]

Attracting new players - Young or old.
#1 The potential player will hear "something" that they can relate to, cow punk, gospel, Hank, something they can relate to on a personal level. Maybe they heard actual country or hawiaian music played on the record player while they were in the womb. It does not matter. They will relate to those sounds on an emotional level and want to keep hearing those sounds, even if they must make the sounds themselves, just to keep hearing it, which brings us to #2. Accessbility.
Musical instrument manufacturers used to have salesmen that would literally go door to door. The idea was to put a piano in every parlor. MY piano that MY company built, so that I make $$ while "you" play the hits of the day on the piano that I sold you. Which brings us (me) to #3.
A hit song.
Please forgive my ignorance but does R.Randolf have a "hit" song? I don't know his songs but he must have a couple "hits". How else could he be such a big draw?
INMHOP, A big popular hit song, featuring steel, would do more to attract new players than all the gadgets and slick production skills combined.
A song along the lines of "Teach Your Children".

[Jerry Overstreet]

Attracting new players - Young or old.
#1 The potential player will hear "something" that they can relate to, cow punk, gospel, Hank, something they can relate to on a personal level.
INMHOP, A big popular hit song, featuring steel, would do more to attract new players than all the gadgets and slick production skills combined.
A song along the lines of "Teach Your Children".

Yes, exactly. Actually I believe it will take more than a single hit, rather a huge musical movement like the country rock stuff of the late 60's/early 70's, but I don't see that happening. It's OK if it doesn't. There will always be people attracted to the pedal steel just because of the unique sound.

Cost is not a big factor IMO. Those that aspire to play will always find a way to acquire an instrument.

[Mike Neer]

New players will find their way to the instrument through old classic recordings, but it shouldn't stop there. There should be more encouragement amongst players to explore new sounds and ideas, and more open-mindedness and tolerance towards others' music.
After all, it is art, not paint by numbers.

Players should be encouraged to learn as much as possible about music and how the role of the steel guitar can be expanded in music.

That said, I don't think you can do anything to attract new players--they will find their own way. Acquiring instruments is a problem for many, but where there is a will there is a way.

My own personal attraction to the instrument came after many years of playing guitar and ultimately realizing that I was trying in some ways to duplicate the sound of steel. Once I got the bug to learn, Susan Alcorn was a big influence to me. I was already hip to the kind of music she was playing, and it was the adventurous spirit that convinced me that I could do anything I wanted to with the steel.

[Bud Angelotti]

"New players will find their way to the instrument through old classic recordings"
Not if they don't somehow relate to those old classic recordings Mike.
And if they DO relate, they might be motivated to load a big heavy ZB and a Fender Twin, into the car, drive an hour or so, unload, carry the big heavy guitar AND amp up 3 flights of stairs, have some fun playing music with their pals, and then do the whole thing again in reverse to make it home.

[Mike Neer]

Bud, I wasn't suggesting that it had to be only classic Country or even pedal steel recordings. There is plenty of other stuff--Hank Williams tends to be a very big attraction for new players and so do Hawaiian records and Sacred steel.

[Bill McCloskey]

Interesting.

I have been a member of this forum for probably close to 10 years. I've come and gone and come back again. Usually the thing that drives me off is the attitude. About a year ago I had an amazing experience where I played lap steel at a local drum circle. It was a great evening: the other musicians, drummers, and dancers loved the sound, and I introduced the Steel guitar about 50 new people who there there.

I came on here and posted about it, my first post in probably a year, and the reaction I received was that it sounded like a bunch of hippies sitting around and that steel shouldn't be played like that.

It was another year before I posted again.

As far as encouraging young people to pick up the steel, we have met the enemy and it is us.

[Jerry Overstreet]

I'm afraid I must agree with you Bill. Many present players only want new steel players if they fit certain parameters. No way out stuff too far out of the proverbial box.

There is actually quite a bit of steel guitar out there that most here never hear. An example, My Morning Jacket uses quite a bit of pedal steel. There are many other bands and artists too. I see them frequently on PBS, specialty music shows like The Old Time Radio Hour, late nite TV and hear them in the themes of the "young" prime time network TV series a lot.

[Dave Mudgett]

Steel guitar, and especially pedal steel, has always been a specialty instrument, and I don't see that changing all that much. But nor do I see that as a problem.

To be sure, it's a helluvalot easier and cheaper (in constant dollars) to buy, let's say, a pedal steel. For example, a $450 Sho Bud Maverick in 1974 can generally be bought for about the same amount of money today, and the dollar is devalued around 5 times since then. For double that, you can get a very playable steel, anything from a Zum Stage One to an older but 'less panache' used pedal steel like a BMI, MSA, or Dekley. You can get a perfectly fine old or new lap steel for less than the price of a decent 6-string guitar, money is no issue there at all, and there are lots of younger players moving in that direction. Some of them also take on pedal steel, I know several who have done just that.

From a learning/playing point of view, there's easy access to tons of useful information. This forum has made a big difference, and I think in time, we'll see a new generation of players, some nonpedal, some pedal, some both. But I think it's still gonna be a specialty instrument. No matter how easy it is to get a steel or learning materials, there's really no mainstream infrastructure to propagate interest and there isn't a sufficiently high density of players to provide adequate local mentoring in most places. Left largely on their own without the kind of access to a range of teachers, as a guitarist, pianist, drummer, horn player, or classical string player would have almost anywhere, anybody who is not a highly motivated self-starter is likely to get discouraged and quit.

I agree with Bill M. that attitude of the steel guitar community matters, and of course there are players out there who catcall anything that is out of their particular box. But I don't think that's such a big deal - that attitude is prevalent in many musical communities that I've been around - "Hey, man - you need to rawk out more, dude!", and I'm a guy who doesn't mind rawking out when it's appropriate, but not necessarily on everything. I basically think one needs to have a pretty thick hide to move out of any accepted stylistic box, there will always be naysayers.

I also play with plenty of younger musicians (I don't think anybody could conceivably call me 'young' at this point). All these folks love kick-ass cool old country music and 60s-70s country rock to the bone. We can rock out on demand also - folk, blues, and jazz are cool too - it's always nice to be able to do a range. It's all good, there's no need for worrying and hand-wringing. If we just keep our minds open as a community, it will help.

[Bud Angelotti]

"I wasn't suggesting that it had to be only classic Country or even pedal steel recordings." - I realize that Mike. No drama
The point is,
Step#1. I don't play any instrument.
Step#2. I hear some music on the radio, web, TV, what have you,and it appeals to me on an emotional level and I want to make a sound like that.
How much it appeals to me, dictates how far I go with
Step #3, which is, I/you, make it happen, unless of course there just happens to be a steel of some kind, always ready to go, in the parlor, where the piano used to be, right next to the grandfather clock.
Oh & as far as attitude, although Mike & I have never met in person, we both have at least 2 things in common. Steel, and we're both from NJ.
You lookin' at me? Fuggetabouttit

[Daniel Policarpo]

Though I am completely and firmly hooked on hard honky tonk music, there was a time where I was part of a really experimental "noise" group who used to put on shows under bridges, in sewer drains,and in abandoned warehouses using generators and all sorts of prepared instruments and homemade devices. I came into pedal steel through country music, but a pedal steel guitar would have been great in that "experimental noise" format. The sonic blitzkreig potential in the pedal steel is just as great is its sublime tenderness. I can see movie scoring being paired with a pedal steel and a range of effects boxes to great effect.

[Stephen Cowell]

I think it key here the statement that in 14 years of playing a 6 string there is no mention of a lap steel in the picture.
But when a PSG came within grasp everything changed.
Sure the SGF helps but as I said before in a related topic the key factor in Attracting New Players is being able to acquire a PSG.

I disagree... there are many different kinds of music, and several different kinds of steel guitar. The lap steel is key to several genres of music... Hawaiian, Western Swing foremost among them. Where is the PSG in blues, swing, Hawaiian music? If you want to play E9 Nashville-style 'Country' then there's no other game in town... but be prepared to pony up the bucks and climb the tree.

Are you trying to get new 'steel' players, or new PSG players? Which is more affordable? Which one most directly parallels (very popular) standard guitar? Which one has the most tunings? Which one is most broadly applicable? Here's one for Ray... which one did Jerry Byrd (PBUH) play?

Many of us came to PSG through lap... remember, *all* the old timers went through lap. It's the mother instrument. Where's the PSG at the acoustic jam? You can't pick one up and go... jeez, there's even a 'what car do you take to gigs' thread. Generally it's an SUV with a hatchback, if not a bobtail truck with a lift-gate!

You want more steel guitar? Get dobros into more hands... I put my *dobro* on my *motorbike* and show up at *jams*... *that's* the way to spread the word, IMO.

[Frederick Hogaboom]

Go to most instrument sellers and the absence of dobros, lap steel and pedal steels answers the question of popularity and therefore availability.

Enticing new players to the world of dobro, lap and pedal steel requires a new mind set on acceptance by the current players and the public.

Failure of the media and entertainment venues to expose their audience to a variety of musical types hamstrings growth and creativity.
Nashville's current crop of "entertainment" belittles those of the past who set the bar.

The old adage, "if you can't beat them join them" has been replaced with, "ignore them and maybe they will go away!"
Heard a current "country" song recently(don't remember the name or singer) that "featured" a steel player in a lesser role.

Today's entertainers, with some exceptions, do not want musicians "steeling" their spotlight.
Change comes about through acceptance.

[Jim Curtain]

I plan on "loaning" my Carter Starter to a friend to see if this would get him into playing pedal steel. I really don't want to sell it, and if it would get more players in our ranks, the better.....

[Bud Angelotti]

Good job Jim!
Thats how I started. Some other guy in the house had a maverick and I commandeered it.

[Alan Tanner]

I gave a 3 x 1 steel guitar to a guy who was just starting out. Case and all. I think he next moved up to a Carter Starter. That was a couple of years back. I dont see him anymore so I dont know if he is still working steel. He got married since. I also dont know if the 3 x 1 moved on to another owner or not. At least one young man was tickled.

[Alan Tanner]

Maybe "new players" are turned off by attitudes???
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=234042