Attracting New Players

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 16 Sep 2012 10:56 am

Charles,

I've been rehearsing a few instrumentals that may free up some of your doubts about me. My rhythm player passed a few years ago. I maintain that without a rhythm guitarist who knows all the important changes, and where they belong, it's a bit more difficult to pull off a good performance. I appreciate your determination to get me to present a video at this time without suitable rhythm tracks.

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 16 Sep 2012 11:00 am

Charlie,Your charging into Bill personally and not the subtance isn't what b0bs intent of the forum was set up for.. However I'm a firm believer in if you have nothing to say,go ahead and say it..Bill has nothing to prove I've heard him play..But there are those on here that should spend more time at what Bill preaches..Practicing..The man has done more for the Steel Guitar by accident than most will actually do trying..If anyone does not like the content of his post then why not use the other option one has..

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 16 Sep 2012 1:59 pm

Mr. Casey,When Mr. Hankey stops talking out of both sides of his mouth,and stops making unintelligible post that even the CIA would not be able to decipher.He always says he NEVER,NEVER,NEVER makes disparaging remarks about forum members, He has called some buffoons,idiots,tree dwellers, etc.There are plenty of these posts right here on the forum.They don't go away. Could'nt this be construed as almost being hypocritical ? If someone is guilty of this,should'nt they be called out on it ? By the way now his excuse is he has no rhythum player .How lame.There are MANY rhythum tracks right here on the forum. YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 16 Sep 2012 6:29 pm

Well! Hello - tall, dark and obnoxious!

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 16 Sep 2012 6:40 pm

Bo that's totally unfair he's not tall or dark.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 17 Sep 2012 5:51 am

Not everyone is blessed with phenomenal skills of say BUDDY EMMONS or the late HERBY WALLACE in his prime, or at the peak of of his playing career. If there should be a like musician of either gentleman in every large town or city in the U.S.A., the American public as a whole, would undoubtedly after decades of literally shrugging their shoulders in the presence of the great masters of the pedal steel guitar, come to realize the significance of the instrument. The steel guitar is catching on with leaps and bounds, as manufacturers are producing improvements in high quality instruments. One of the problems it seems, I'm thinking that the steel guitar has never been properly introduced to the general populace. I realize that certain types of exposures are of limited value. If there are only minimal responses, in terms of noticable increases in sales, or other evidentiary responses, the instrument's popularity is still a long way from putting a rush on the steel guitar's builders throughout the industry.

Ross Whitaker · Post by **Ross Whitaker** » 17 Sep 2012 5:34 pm

Regarding the original topic, and speaking as a youngish player, I don't think young people would be attracted to modern pop music on the pedal steel. I've been playing p.s. in both a traditional/outlaw country band and a rock band for the past six months, working 3-5 nights every week, and people in my peer group like the old-school stuff. In fact, the trad. band had a group of tatted 20-something punks dancing to Hank Williams songs just last night.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 18 Sep 2012 6:01 am

Ross Whitaker,

I agree that some musicians can be very nitpicky. The obvious results of trendings among the youthful segments of our society have resulted in what is called "New Country". Everywhere you go, you will hear, "If it "ain't" broke, don't fix it!" A silly comment out of the norm in a society of linguistic groups, in any community. Where are those RANTERS who spent so much time raving about not changing something that isn't broken? Actually, you can turn a traditional rocker's ear with the first string on your pedal steel, tuned to the 9th tuning. I've found that their "critical" ears are susceptible to a particular type of sound transmission.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 18 Sep 2012 6:46 am

Perhaps it is that very E9th tuning that is holding steel back. The most popular steel player today, or one of the most, is Robert Randolph, who doesn't play in E9th and even some of our greatest steel players from the 30's, 40's and 50's, such as Joqquin Murphey considered E9th as a gimmick and a joke.

E9th is a great tuning if you are playing traditional country music from the 60's and 70's but hardly the tuning you want if you are trying to catch a young ear or play outside the country music repertoire. Maybe it ain't the pedals, but the tuning that is holding the instrument back. At least, a lot of great straight steel players thought so, or so I've read.

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 18 Sep 2012 7:03 am

To Bo.. I love your puppet act..

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 18 Sep 2012 7:27 am

Bill, you may have read it, but I don't know where. I don't think anyone who isn't a musician or a critical listener would notice or care anything about what tuning was being used on the psg. Most of them don't even know what it is. God rest his soul, Joaquin is gone yet somehow the E9 tuning goes on ...

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 18 Sep 2012 8:35 am

Bill McCloskey wrote: The most popular steel player today, or one of the most, is Robert Randolph

i saw him on letterman once...didn't really care for it.

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 18 Sep 2012 8:45 am

(cue William Shatner voice)

"...To-ge-ther a-gain..."

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 18 Sep 2012 9:09 am

now steve, i certainly wouldn't want to be the one repressing honest and free opinion and thought.(mine included) and of course i realize that robert has the perfect right to go where none have gone before....i just don't know if he'd be considered 'the most popular', especially in the context of a steel guitar forum.
i will continue to express myself as i see fit, inspite of your attempted regulation. thank you.

here's a pic for your dart board!

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 18 Sep 2012 9:21 am

Chris,

I've watched that ROBERT RANDOLPH interview some time ago, that created a fair amount of interest in those viewers who could sustain a prolonged exchange of techniques pointed out by MR. RANDOLPH. He is the furthest you can move away from tradition. As a nontraditionist he jokes around about the simplicity of hot country "licks", by demonstrating how simple they are, and just as quickly introduces a variety of hairbrained ideas on his special tuning. All in all, the super pickers devoted to country music need only be concerned with the intense enthusiasm he creates with his flamboyant behavior in performances, to balance out their own presentations.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 18 Sep 2012 9:59 am

Well, as my granpappy used to say, "There's no sense in teaching a dead dog to water - but another one opens!" 'course, he was retarded.... Do you guys seriously not get that Mr. Hankey's mastery of the elusive butterfly in the Brazillion rainforest technique is entirely willful? He's got one of those circular cardboard Aphorism Generators where you just line up three or five bits at random and away you go! Or they probably do it with computers nowadays, or the tried-n-true reversed engineered chickenscratch methodes of the old country, as the concept of "willful randomness" combined with the heady fizz of brimstone and near-homeopathic mid-tongue frisson of sulphur leads one to suspect the wily digits of Laplace's Demon, subtly re-arranging the pieces as we go.

Radio stations are known to play everything under the sun between advertising everything from soup to nuts. If the people band together, and let local stations know that it's because of you their listening audience, determinations are made as to whether or not their broadcasts are able to continue as an entity in a specified locale, changes may be forthcoming.

You know, nationalized playlists and Clear Channel's homogenizing influence aside, if a hundred people just like Bill Hankey showed up at my radio station with torches and pitchforks I'd play him any damn thing he wanted. Maybe even ten or twelve of 'em, with a couple of ratty thesauri, a fish sandwich and a steely glint of determinism in their eye...

Kiss the barroom gigs good-bye. Instead, book parties, such as weddings, anniversaries, celebrations, etc. They pay 3 times the amount collected at common saloons or barrooms. You never need be concerned about followings. Invited guests assure you of an enthusiastic participation.

And wouldn't you know, I was just dreaming of a steel guitar engagement! Oh. eM. Gee.... It IS all connected!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DCi1qUC7f8

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laplace%27s_demon

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 18 Sep 2012 10:01 am

"Bill, you may have read it, but I don't know where."

Lap Steel Guitar by Andy Volk:

"I just try to do what I do and play as tasty as I can with what Little I know. I just play C6th. I can't do all that fancy Nashville stuff and I hate it anyway..it's so gimmikeky" Joaquin Murphey

"I still don't care for the Nashville sound. It's not as versatile as a tuning as 6th tuning whereby you can get chords if you want and still play a melody line. E9th is pretty much for sound effects, backing up singers, or playing country music with three or four chords." Herb Remington

There are a number of other quotes from other great players, but you get the idea. I think a lot of the old straight steel players think E9th lacks personality and everyone sounds the same who plays it, while C6th allowed for more unique styles to emerge. I don't expect anyone here to agree.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 18 Sep 2012 10:39 am

As sort of a follow up question: are you folks interested in saving the tuning? or the instrument? I think it is easy to see the future of pedal steel with E9th tuning. Look at the where straight steel is today: It is played in Western Swing tribute bands and hawaiian bands, where the same tunes are played over and over and nothing is ever added to the repertoire. Is that the fate you want for pedal steel? The same tunes played over and over and played in places where people dress up for nostalgia?

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 18 Sep 2012 10:58 am

"He is the furthest you can move away from tradition"

That is an absolutely false statement.

Just because Robert doesn't come from YOUR tradition, doesn't mean he doesn't come from a tradition. I hate to be the one to inform you but the Sacred Steel tradition goes back further than the Country and Western E9th pedal steel tradition. Much further back.

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 18 Sep 2012 12:03 pm

The unpublished given from the theory of everything.
It applies to the Forum as well as all of today's news.
“Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.” George Carlin

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 18 Sep 2012 12:14 pm

how do we attract new players? heres what youve tried so far

-insist they play your style of music even tho they have no interest in it.
-insist they dress, talk, behave and hold the same religious and political ideology as yourselves
-spend countless years debating whether your best living and active player (and arguably most popular) is a legitimate musician because he plays a style of music you dont care for.
-keep the price of the instrument high and the availability of personal instruction low
-constantly complain about how the old days were better.

hows it working so far?

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 18 Sep 2012 12:41 pm

I think it is easy to see the future of pedal steel with E9th tuning. Look at the where straight steel is today: It is played in Western Swing tribute bands and hawaiian bands, where the same tunes are played over and over and nothing is ever added to the repertoire. Is that the fate you want for pedal steel?

But Bill, Western Swing and Hawaiian is, more often than not, played on C6, no?

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 18 Sep 2012 12:42 pm

Bo I think your right on with your theory of everything.
It is refreshing that we got somewhat back onto topic as apposed to a continuation of rioting Bills topic and torching his embassy.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 18 Sep 2012 12:43 pm

David Mason,

Man is deemed woeful, and at a loss while attempting to explain a theorem suggested by others down through the years concerning how it all began. Not a single intellectual on our planet has ever produced an acceptable theory of the beginning stages of all creation. I call it the MISSING LINK in man. Something has prevented the most noteworthy scientists from gathering that profound knowledge. It could be that the shock of knowing, would induce more excitation than we could withstand. Music is another great mystery. We're many light-years away from finding the last melody, or hot "lick" on the pedal steel guitar. It's simply unforeseeable in the future of all ages.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 18 Sep 2012 1:01 pm

"But Bill, Western Swing and Hawaiian is more often than not played on C6, no?"

I think if you look at the literature (and Andy's book is a great resource) I think you will find many many different tunings (and different necks) played in both those genres. The percentage currently played on C6th, I don't have a clue. I think one of the fun things about straight steel was the catholic nature of the tunings.

But that wasn't my point. I wasn't making a plea for C6th or any other tuning. I am saying that over reliance on E9th has a limiting effect on the future of the instrument (IMHO). Robert Randolph plays with a type of E7th tuning ( I imagine).

The straight steel enjoyed quite a bit of experimentation, especially in the area of tunings. Where are pedal's equally varied experiments?