Pro and Con about the C6th neck

Jack Mattison · Post by **Jack Mattison** » 5 Jul 2012 4:10 pm

I have seen alot of post about steelers that have D10 steels, and seldom use the bottom neck other then an arm rest. I have been playing my D10 for about 3yrs. now, and I really have just touched on the possiable things to do with it [E9]. I have really loved learning this great guitar. Love playing with my church's praise and worship team. But...... I got tired of using my C6 neck as an Arm Rest...... So I got Jeff Newmans 1st C6th work shop to get me started learning that neck also. So just want to ask you guys that play your bottom neck What or who you think puts out the best course for learning C6th.??? I know this is a subjective question, but was just curious as to those of you who really play C6th what you think. I will probabley get Jeff's 2nd C6th workshop, but would like to look at some others just like I did with E9th. I know this is long and may not be realivent to alot of you... But I am curious???? Thanks guys.... Hope you all had a great fourth..... Jack<><

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 5 Jul 2012 5:10 pm

To anwer your question.......

GIVE A LISTEN to JERRY BYRD. His fabulous work began in 1939 on C6th and no one has been successful in achieving more than Jerry did.

He played on a single 6-string; then years later, a single 7-string; then in the sixties, a single 8-string. NEVER any pedals.

Don't paint yourself into a corner with respect to your impression of what C6th is all about. It is a most versatile tuning.

Christopher Woitach · Post by **Christopher Woitach** » 5 Jul 2012 6:48 pm

Herby Wallace's courses ( I think there are 3, I've used the first two) are very useful and clear to get you going. His stuff is 3 finger style

Cliff Kane · Post by **Cliff Kane** » 5 Jul 2012 9:31 pm

The Buddy Emmons course is good material to get started. He spends time relating it to the E9 tuning that you're already familiar with, and he shows lots of scale patterns and pockets. Herb Steiner's stuff is very practical for getting started. Both Buddy and Herb's material use a D on top if you have that. You could use Scotty's C6 lap steel book to learn the core tuning without pedals and then build from that. Isn't there a massive Jerry Byrd C6 course somewhere?

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 5 Jul 2012 9:38 pm

YES, Cliff.......

The BIG STEEL GUITAR INSTRUCTION MANUAL for truly SERIOUS STUDENTS of the instrument authored by JERRY BYRD is available thro' Scotty's Music in St.Louis.

It takes a commited student from basic "E" Tuning, thro' C#min, A6th, along with all of the proper techniques for playing in any tuning.

Once you've mastered the basics......you should be qualified to move up the ladder into more technical studies like the E9th with pedals and all that kinda stuff.

To ignore the basics.......is truly a disservice to oneself. BEWARE!

Christopher Woitach · Post by **Christopher Woitach** » 5 Jul 2012 10:06 pm

Forgive me - I'm still pretty new to this - but if someone wants to play C6 pedal steel, wouldn't a course that involves pedals be a pretty important first move? I certainly use C6 lap steel concepts in my playing and in my studies, especially when playing single note lines, but the pedals, and the complex chords available on the C6 pedal steel, are such a huge part of the instrument that it seems to me that they need to learned sooner, rather than later, so that the player can start integrating them immediately.

Perhaps doing a course like Jerry Byrd's and one like Buddy Emmons's or Herby Wallace's concurantly would be a good idea?

I am, of course, only speaking as a music teacher, and a steel guitar student, not a steel guitar expert, so perhaps I'm way off base here.

Christopher Woitach · Post by **Christopher Woitach** » 5 Jul 2012 10:28 pm

I should mention that one C6 lap steel course I found very useful is one by the great Mike Neer - great concept of what he calls vertical (I'd call it horizontal) playing. Terrific stuff!

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... sc&start=0

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 6 Jul 2012 4:21 am

Herb Steiner's C6 Chord booklet has been invaluable to me.

http://www.herbsteiner.com/

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 6 Jul 2012 7:17 am

It's always been my feeling that if you know the basics of, let's say C6th tuning, and then you ad pedals to that, you have a full house of musical skills and knowledge.

On the other hand, it's been my experience that all too many of the folks that jump into steel guitar 'with pedals'....... have a longer than normal time trying to figure out when and where to push the pedals here or there. It's always appeared to me that becomes more of a mechanical/mental process than simply an embelishment to be used in appropriate places.

One can usually spot the student that has learned strictly by Tab and with a metronome(sp??). They never miss a beat and the phrasing suffers.

But........what do I know. Silly me.....

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 6 Jul 2012 7:22 am

Buddy Emmons " Basic C6 " is a must have imo
Jeff Newman
[url]http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... 229464/url]
Herby Wallace
Herb Steiner
Jim Loessberg

Western Swing standards are good to get you into C6 (as they do for E9 too)
otherwise a lot of Jazz Standards too but you must want to play that kind of stuff

Christopher Woitach · Post by **Christopher Woitach** » 6 Jul 2012 7:23 am

Okay, Ray. Just my opinion, not trying to argue against your superior wisdom and experience.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 6 Jul 2012 7:30 am

I also would reccomend sticking with a Course that matches your Instrument configuration. You'll learn the basics on a D10 C6 in this case.
I learned the basics on a 12 string E9/B6th
Christopher learned the basics on a 12 string Bb6th.
I think Ray said he learned the basics on a C6th 6-string non-pedal.
Whatever it is, it's all good.
I liked the San Antone Rose portion of Jeff Newmas "C6th & Swingin'" course. It really gets you up and running on pedals 5 and 6, and also if you can play that tune you can apply it directly to a ton of swing tunes.
The Sweet Georgia Brown segment of the course was a little too much at the time. I should watch it again.
There are alot of Jeff Newman vids on Youtube where he plays the licks in his course during the song.
Choo Choo Cha Boogie is one.

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 6 Jul 2012 9:31 am

I agree with both Pete... and Ray, although if you currently have a pedal C6 guitar, I'd go the route of learning the basics of the pedal style, get every course you can afford and in the process go back and study Byrd and other non-pedal players for the wisdom and style they offer.
Newman's courses are very straight-forward and will get you going on some basic playing to apply to anything. Another big yes on Buddy's beginning C6 course, some really great insight into his improvisational pocket thinking, and nice pedal changes you'll love to use. The Wallace courses are great as you move along, also the many Jernigan books from Hilton publishing (if still available) which are just loaded with licks, if short on methodology. Also check the great material from Jim Cohen and Herb Steiner.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 6 Jul 2012 12:34 pm

Mark van Allen wrote:the many Jernigan books from Hilton publishing (if still available) which are just loaded with licks, if short on methodology.

I have several of those books that I bought in the mid-80's. I saw Jernigan play at a steel show in Pennsylvania, and was so impressed with his C6th playing that I figured his stuff would be a gold mine. The "courses" came with tape cassettes (remember those?) but they were really cheap ones that warbled and stuttered even when they were new and soon jammed altogether, and the books are full of many pages of "Here's a lick in Bb" with single-string licks tabbed without any time indication, so it was pretty hard to figure what the lick was intended to sound like without being able to listen to it. Often 4-note chords were given with the thumb indicated to pick two notes on strings that weren't adjacent, which seemed limited in usefulness. I'm afraid frustration with those courses helped discourage me from getting into the C6th.

They don't seem to be offered on his website now, but I would be curious to obtain a copy of the audio, if anyone has them? "Good Things to Play" for C6th, "Nashville Pedal Steel Guitar" for C6th. Also "Nashville Pedal Steel Guitar" for E9th, while I'm at it.

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 6 Jul 2012 12:54 pm

Brint, I have the cassette for Nashville...C6th, 50 Hot Licks. I can make a copy for you, if you want.

Billy Tonnesen · Post by **Billy Tonnesen** » 6 Jul 2012 1:41 pm

IMHO, when you learn the E9th neck you are working to play a style that was established for Country Music. (of course there are exceptions). When using a C6th or sometimes the higher A6th, you have tyhe opportunity to develope to a great extent, a Style of your own. You have options on what you want your pedals and knee levers to change depending on your personal taste. I believe in a Jam or Western Swing session with other instruments the other musicians will appreciate effforts in the C6th or A6th mode over the E9th.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 6 Jul 2012 2:10 pm

Joachim Kettner wrote:Brint, I have the cassette for Nashville...C6th, 50 Hot Licks. I can make a copy for you, if you want.

Joachim, Thanks, but that's a different book that I don't have. $:\$
It might be fun to try to get the licks by ear, though!

Jack Mattison · Post by **Jack Mattison** » 6 Jul 2012 2:32 pm

Thanks to all of you who posted. So many of you to mention with great info on what I ask for. I now have alot to go by, pedals or know pedals

This is going to be just as fun and rewarding as learning the top neck was. What a great instrament. Wish I would have started learning pedal steel at an earlier age $:\$ Thanks once again guys for all your help. Your all GREAT........... Jack<><

The Steel Guitar Forum

Pro and Con about the C6th neck

Pro and Con about the C6th neck

C6th exists elsewhere; not just on a double neck pedal stee

Nice of YOU to ask!

It's just MY opinion and I don't really have any credentials

C6th courses