(steel)guitar collector on tv serie route 66...

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 18 May 2012 10:12 am

You tell 'em Tony.

Erik Alderink · Post by **Erik Alderink** » 18 May 2012 10:25 am

I think that a collection like this represents a great number of instruments that have been spared from shipping disasters, mods, or any other number of horrors that can ruin instruments.
Think of it this way, someday someone will be able to have a pristine example of an antique instrument thanks to collectors like him.
Circulated examples rarely stay pristine.
And I am not a collector.

Bob Blair · Post by **Bob Blair** » 18 May 2012 11:51 am

If it wasn't for collectors there are all kinds of things we might never get a chance to see. I know of one great museum not far from my home that resulted from one individual's passion for collecting old vehicles and machinery. I don't know what motivated him to do it, but the world is a better place for it.

There is no reason to think these instruments would be in the hands of deserving musicians if this gentleman had not collected them. Why are some of us so quick to judge?

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 18 May 2012 2:58 pm

There's also a big famous Museum in Washington DC , actually a few of them...where COLLECTORS have sent stuff for the rest of us to see.. I think it may be related to history or something like that. A collection of things from the past so to speak...

I have two Vox Super Beatles..I doubt anyone wants to see them but me right now, but... at least two are preserved in very fine original condition for future eye's to gaze upon.

Erik Alderink · Post by **Erik Alderink** » 18 May 2012 4:48 pm

I love Super Beatles! I have 2 as well!
Back to the topic now...

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 18 May 2012 10:59 pm

Erik Alderink wrote:I love Super Beatles! I have 2 as well!
Back to the topic now...

Well ok ! Now we know of 4 !

we should have a convention !

t

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 19 May 2012 12:14 am

Tony Prior wrote:we should have a convention!

...at Shea Stadium?

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 19 May 2012 2:54 am

Ron Whitfield wrote:
Tony Prior wrote:we should have a convention!
...at Shea Stadium?

Is Shea Stadium big enough ?

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 19 May 2012 7:36 am

My take: Unlike stamps or records, instruments are not ends in and of themselves, but tools, to be used to make music.

Collecting them has kept them out of the hands of musicians, and driven the prices up. Fortunately, as has been pointed out, you can buy a pretty decent Asian import today, and nobody need go without a good guitar because of scarcity. Squires, Ibanez Artcores, and smaller companies like the Agile and the one owned by my friend (Ravenwest) are turning out professional grade guitars at very reasonable prices.

Nevertheless, there are those who say only a pre-CBS Tele or a Brazilian rosewood Martin is good enough. and for the most part, these people can no longer afford to buy what they perceive to be the best possible tools of their trade. (I recently read about a 50s vintage Les Paul that sold for $300,000.)

I believe that instruments are supposed to be played, not put in display cases. On a totally different level than what we're talking about here, there is a foundation that owns a number of Stradivarius violins, that has the right idea. They own the violins, but they lend them to deserving players who can't afford to buy them.

I doubt that there will ever be a consensus on this issue.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 19 May 2012 7:55 am

Mike, they were not kept out of the hands of anyone, they were for sale and someone bought them...they didn't start life in a collection...anyone could have bought them.

Plus not every Instrument is a players Instrument. Evolution of time puts older instruments that don't play that well or are missing modern upgrades and improvements , places them in closets, attics, garages, or as in the case here, a small museum. How many of us are searching for that perfect Fender Corondo ?

How many really want an older Fender Pedal Steel to gig with regularly instead of the modern all pull guitar with a nice configuration of changes. I dare say not many...

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 19 May 2012 5:22 pm

Tony, it's not a black or white, either/or thing. It's true that there is not a single person who wants a Coronado or a lap steel and can't get one because this man has 50 of them.

But what if he had 50 pre WW 2 Martin D-28s and D-45s? Or 50 Fender broadcasters, or 1950s vintage Les Pauls, or, just to take this to the level of absurdity, 50 Stradivarius violins?

It really depends on the situation.

About 40 years ago I found a pre-1900 Martin parlor guitar with the neck so badly warped that it was absolutely unplayable, and only suitable for a wall decoration. I eventually sold it to a store called McCabes, that some people here might know. That guitar belongs in a glass case on display somewhere. But in my opinion, A 1942 Herringbone D-28 ought to be in the hands of somebody who will play it.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 20 May 2012 4:21 am

Mike Perlowin wrote:
But what if he had 50 pre WW 2 Martin D-28s and D-45s? Or 50 Fender broadcasters, or 1950s vintage Les Pauls, or, just to take this to the level of absurdity, 50 Stradivarius violins?

But he's not... he's not collecting or hoarding Instruments that are valued at $10,000 to $25,000 each..and how many of us are going to pay $25,000 for one of those mentioned ? So it does still matter, even a collector of Broadcasters it not taking anything away from anyone else, 99% of working guitar players would never buy a 51 Broadcaster and gig with it...that's like driving your mint 67 / big block Vette to the airport and leaving it in the long term lot each week Monday thru Friday while you travel on business...

And just a heads up..there is a 1940 Martin for sale right here on this forum, if you are inclined , I am quite certain the owner would be very pleased with your purchase...then once you buy it you can gig with it as you desire...point..it's available..right now...it's not in a museum...

I was at Gruhn's a week or so back..there are easily 100 beautiful vintage Instruments for sale, , Guitars, Mandolins etc...available..right now...and that's just one store....

t

Ronald Cid · Post by **Ronald Cid** » 20 May 2012 1:56 pm

I've watched the film a couple of times, and frankly...Fender Coronado's. Yikes !!!

One of the ugliest Fenders ever made. As far as I'm concerned, he can keep and hoard them all. As for the rest of the goods, I saw a lot of Strats, but unless they are from the 60's with the V neck they are a dime a dozen. It's what I didn't see that intrigues me, no 1960 Gibson Les Paul sunburst, No old Les Pauls SG shaped, no Tele's from the 60's no Gretsch's, no 335's, no old Martins

It really looked like a pawn shop, yet the man is passionate and that's the best part of the film.

I have a small collection of old guitars, ('61 ES335, '65 SG, '61 Gretsch Tennessean, The first production of the Chet Atkins Gibson electric classical, and two old Sho-Buds) Not sure, but the 1961 ES335 could buy all of his Coronado's and still have thousands to pick up some Apple or Facebook stock.

RC

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 20 May 2012 4:46 pm

During the 70s my job entailed auditing museums and art galleries. checking their inventories being the biggest part of the job. What I found is that museums are like icebergs; there's more below the surface than above. The average museum has more of its inventory in the basement in boxes than on display to the public. Art collectors can be even worse. There are paintings by well-known artists that are considered investments, and will never be taken out of their crates.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 21 May 2012 3:07 am

Ronald Cid wrote: It's what I didn't see that intrigues me, no 1960 Gibson Les Paul sunburst, No old Les Pauls SG shaped, no Tele's from the 60's no Gretsch's, no 335's, no old Martins

It really looked like a pawn shop, yet the man is passionate and that's the best part of the film.

Ron, couldn't agree more...for the most part the guy has put together a collection of Instruments that intrigue him, but probably very few others would ever consider collecting these Instruments. I'm sure he a has a few gems in there ..but the mass of the collection is not really instruments that the world is beating a path to acquire !

I think the film is excellent and I would love to visit this guy and see the collection should I ever be in his neighborhood...

Ronald Cid · Post by **Ronald Cid** » 21 May 2012 5:56 am

Tony,

I have to agree, it must be a trip to visit this person, regardless if it is a zither, lap steel, pedal steel (I noticed some old Fender's in the film) guitars, this guy has it all, but the best part of the film was the reaction of Billy Connelly. It was genuine, and it must be amazing to see all those instruments in one place. I remember years ago going into a pawn shop in Montreal and finding a Gibson Les Paul SG shape with the bizarre sideways tremolo and regret not purchasing it at 200$ I saw one recently on the Gruhn site and it was of course in perfect condition and they wanted 18K. I did a clean-up of my basement recently, and placed all sorts of computer equipment in the re-cycling bin. The next day there was nothing left. Someone made off with a Lexmark laser printer, 6 Cisco switches, three old PC's and at least 30 PS2 mouse (Mice). LoL The best is that the Lexmark printer had two drawers and they forgot to take the drawers ! lol

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 21 May 2012 10:56 am

But what happens when he dies ? Does the collection become part of a museum, or will they all appear on eBay ?

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 21 May 2012 9:19 pm

Tony, were going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

I might not have made myself completely understood, so let me state it as clearly as I can.

I don't have a problem with this guy. He’s not doing anybody any harm by collecting Coronados and lap steels. My beef is with those collectors and investors who hoard fine instruments and keep them out of the hands of the musicians who deserve them.

That’s the key word: deserve. There are great musicians who deserve to have the finest instruments, and can’t get them. Either they are tucked away in a vault, or, if they are available, have become prohibitively expensive. And the reason they have gotten so expensive is that the collectors have grabbed them up and stashed them away.

That 1940 D-28 in the classifieds has a $50,000 price tag. I don't think it should cost that much. But sooner or later it will fetch that price from a wealthy collector, and not from some virtuoso player who deserves to have an instrument of that quality.

Fortunately, the situation today is not as dire as it used to be. We have all these affordable Asian imports, and some of are astonishingly good. But even so, I think that Martin on the forum should go to somebody who plays like Tony Rice.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 22 May 2012 1:21 am

Mike Perlowin wrote:Tony, were going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

My beef is with those collectors and investors who hoard fine instruments and keep them out of the hands of the musicians who deserve them.

That’s the key word: deserve. There are great musicians who deserve to have the

Deserve ? That's not a philosophy I buy into...

Many people desire many things but that doesn't mean they deserve them..Houses, Cars, Jobs, Instrument etc...

Who decides who gets what ?

If you feel someone deserves that Martin you should buy it and give it to them...not restrict another from buying it for whatever reason...like I said , it's available right now to anyone and everyone...to somehow assume it should only be sold to someone who deserves it puts the whole system on it's head...

Why do they deserve it ? Because they can play very well ?

Curt Jarvis · Post by **Curt Jarvis** » 22 May 2012 7:03 am

Hi Guys, I enjoy reading all the posts, even if I don't agree. Pictures of those rooms full of old instruments are like eye candy to musians. When is something like this about Greed and something you don't want to exsplain on your judgement day? Just a thought, and I do know about jellousy too.(allthough I can't spell it today) Have a Great day

James Holland · Post by **James Holland** » 22 May 2012 9:58 am

A couple of thoughts: its important to have unmodified examples from the past, to correctly identify how something was made, what it was made of, and why it was more desirable or superior. Otherwise, you lose the point of what was so distinctive. There's enough non-collectables out there to serve as players, without ruining original examples.

Discounting whether vintage instruments are inherently "better" or not, there is one very important element to vintage instruments: You know you are working with the same equipment as your heroes, and therefore the same limitations. Action, bar frets, skin and gut, ladder bracing, tuners, parts fit - all these little things affect how an instrument wants you to play it. If you're on a vision quest for someones classic tone, there's no better way than to play their gear. You learn what they were about, and why they chose what they chose.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 22 May 2012 1:13 pm

Tony Prior wrote:

Why do they deserve it ? Because they can play very well ?

Yes.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 22 May 2012 1:20 pm

I think the guy has the right to buy & God Bless him.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 22 May 2012 2:10 pm

Mike Perlowin wrote:
Tony Prior wrote:

Why do they deserve it ? Because they can play very well ?
Yes.

How do we get these Instruments in the hands of those who deserve them ?

I am curious as to how that part would work....

Like I said..there is a vintage Martin for sale right now on this forum, whats preventing a "deserving" person from acquiring it ?

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 22 May 2012 2:46 pm

Tony Prior wrote:

Like I said..there is a vintage Martin for sale right now on this forum, whats preventing a "deserving" person from acquiring it ?

The $50,000 price tag. I don't know what that guitar would sell for it the collectors have not been hording them for so many years, but it would certainly be a lot less.

Tony, given your own prowess, (and for the record, I consider you as deserving of having high quality instruments,) how would you feel if due to circumstances beyond your control, (fire, theft, etc.,) you had to play on an inferior instrument, while the one you wanted, the one which you felt was absolutely perfect for you, was sold at an exorbitant price to a wealthy investor who tucked it away in a vault?

As I said Tony, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this question. Clearly, neither of us is going to change the others' opinion. You're entitled to yours, I'm entitled to mine. And neither of us are make an iota of difference in the way the world works.

I think it's time to move on.

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(steel)guitar collector on tv serie route 66...

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