Tips to learn how to improvise solos?

Michael Murray · Post by **Michael Murray** » 25 Apr 2012 2:23 pm

I've been playing about 18mos and really enjoying. I feel comfortable playing along with live performers (keeping up with chord changes, short fills, etc.). I continue to learn different positions for scales. However, when it comes time to improvise a solo, I'm very challenged. My instructional DVDs (Homespun and Ernie Bay) don't seem to cover this.

Can anyone point me to instructional material, or perhaps provide any tips to get me going?

Thanks a lot,
Michael

Curry Coster · Post by **Curry Coster** » 25 Apr 2012 2:49 pm

I don't think you can go far wrong by playing the melody.......variations on the theme will likely come to mind after you've been doing it a while...

Hope that helps.....

Curry

Paul Sutherland · Post by **Paul Sutherland** » 25 Apr 2012 3:17 pm

Playing the melody is good advise, but not always easy to do. Some people can hear a melody and then immediately play it. I can't. However, I can usually pick up parts of the melody, and then fake the rest. If you can get the first phrase of the melody correct (or close to correct), you'll find it easier to make semi-logical musical statements for the rest of the solo.

If you can't get the pitches of the notes, perhaps you can duplicate the phrasing/meter. By that I mean, if the singer sings a four note phrase, you should play a four note phrase, with the same length of notes and rests, etc.

Also; I try to judiciously repeat phrases or licks within a given solo. A simple two or three note phrase, when repeated establishes a theme, and sounds like you actually know what you're doing and where you are going.

Taking it a step further, when you play the simple phrase the second time, change just one note, perhaps the last note, or in some other fashion vary the phrase slightly. Some of the best solos I've heard have been where the soloist established a theme, and then played around with it.

Finally; Try to alternate between playing single note phrases and chord passages. Here, I'm not talking about on fast, up-tempo tunes. Rather, on medium tempo and slow tunes, try mixing things up. Slow, single note passages can be quite dramatic if properly executed. And then when you bring in the chords, you raise the emotional content of the solo to a new level.

By "chord passage" I mean start to bring in harmony notes; usually just one additional note, so playing two strings is all that's needed. I do occasionally play three note chord passages, but don't overlook the dramatic effect of playing just two notes/strings.

You have more musical options when you are only trying to line up two notes under the bar.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 25 Apr 2012 4:35 pm

If I don't start with an idea, I'll play the melody, and improvisational value will come from my playing my own fills: That's an easily overlooked element that can take you far in building a solo. And you say you're comfortable filling behind a singer, so you've got a start.

If you sometimes have problems recognizing the melody, you can play nearly anything, so long as it's phrased like the melody

EDIT: Also, if you have problems finding the melody, perhaps (sorry if it seems like I'm tooting my own horn, but the thread also has some other folks with some other useful info) this thread will help?
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=224154

In describing the "colors" or "flavors" of the notes of the scale, it might also provide some insight to building your own ideas out of the notes.

Erik Alderink · Post by **Erik Alderink** » 25 Apr 2012 4:59 pm

An exercise I've used in the past is to play melodies to other songs, similar or not, adjusting the phrasing to fit the timing of the song I am soloing to. Go through a string of melodies, tying them together with licks or fills.
Eventually just 2 or 3 notes will be enough to "inspire" something new and exciting. Or you can fall back on your practice and just play it like the exercise and no one will know!
The most famous example of this I can think of is Clapton's solo in "Sunshine of your love", starting off with "Blue Moon".

David Venzke · Post by **David Venzke** » 25 Apr 2012 7:00 pm

Michael P. Murray wrote:...
Can anyone point me to instructional material, or perhaps provide any tips to get me going?

Because you're already familiar with Homespun, I can recommend these two:

Ear Training For Instrumentalists by Matt Glaser
This fabulous course in musicianship, theory and ear training will help you play anything you hear.

Tools for Musicianship by Matt Glaser
These CDs are packed with fascinating information, important exercises and invaluable training techniques that will polish your musical skills and bring your playing to a higher level!

And although I dislike the title, I have found the following a very useful guide as well.

The Complete Idiot's Guide to Solos and Improvisation by Michael Miller -- This can be had from Amazon for about $10 delivered.

Good luck in your musical quest ....

Christopher Woitach · Post by **Christopher Woitach** » 25 Apr 2012 7:56 pm

This is something I posted before - I teach improvising jazz at a college in Oregon, and this is a concept I've used quite a bit, both in teaching and in my own playing:

Scales, arpeggios, etc, are important, as materials - but what to do them? How do you make melodies "on the fly" that aren't just hand habits, or licks out of context?

The simplest, and non-genre-specific way to use all the material you've practiced is motivic development, in my opinion.

What is a motif? Quick-n-dirty: a short musical phrase that serves as a basis for melodic development

Here are some basic approaches (start with a 3 or 4 note phrase, one with some rhythmic interest - easier to manipulate than a longer one):

1. Silence - without holes, anything you play has no rhythmic or melodic context
2. Repetition - repeat your motif exactly, with space between repetitions, a few times
3. Sequence - Quick-n-dirty: same motif, different pitches, played as a pattern using the prevailing scale. Ex - if your motif is C E G A, and the prevailing scale is C Major, you could play the following sequence - C E G A, D F A B, E G B C using the same rhythm as your basic motif. This is just an example, and what you choose will depend on the specific harmonic situation. This doesn't have to be in scalar order, it could move around much more
3. Augmentation - motif with longer rhythmic values, motif slower
4. Diminuation - motif with shorter rhythmic values, motif faster
5. Retrograde - motif backwards
6. Q & A or Call/Response - play motif, answer it, play motif answer it differently... Blues uses lots of this technique
7. Fragments - use part of your motif, perhaps as a sequence
8. Rhythmic displacement - WHERE you play your idea - move it to a different part of the measure
9. Articulation - HOW you play your idea - slides, harmonics, damped...

This all might sound like a lot to think about - it's stuff to practice until it becomes natural to you. Nobody says "now I think I'll play some retrograde diminuation over my motif" during their solos, it's just something you play around with until it's part of your arsenal of concepts..

Rick Myrland · Post by **Rick Myrland** » 25 Apr 2012 8:09 pm

Follow the great tips from Paul. Then go on to YouTube and look up his videos, especially the one on use of the B & C pedals -- excellent information. Lane Gray is also a great resource. The forum is lucky to have people like this to help players like us.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 25 Apr 2012 8:45 pm

I liked Christopher's suggestions last time he posted them, and I still like them. A lot.

Christopher Woitach · Post by **Christopher Woitach** » 25 Apr 2012 9:24 pm

I hope it isn't lame to repost them - it's just easier than typing it all out again... Thanks Jim!

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 26 Apr 2012 5:49 am

Really great suggestions, all.
In my teaching I've found it useful to imagine the end result, and then "back engineer" a program for getting there.
In the case of improvisation, the end goal is to be

A. Listening to a progression or song
B. Responding with complimentary musical support imagined and created in the moment.

So a great place to start- play a chord you want to improvise over, then sing to yourself a phrase or short melody that fits or just comes to mind. Then find it on your guitar, in as many places and variations as possible. At first it's new, but you'll get better at it quickly. Eventually you'll be able to make longer and more complex phrases, and know where to find them, with the goal of playing anything you can hear.

All the exercises above, as well as any licks you can swipe from copying recordings or tablature collections, will give you more creative ideas, and studying music theory and it's application to steel guitar will help you find those ideas easier and faster.
It's a fun process.

Brian McGaughey · Post by **Brian McGaughey** » 26 Apr 2012 6:16 am

Christopher Woitach wrote:I hope it isn't lame to repost them - it's just easier than typing it all out again...

Christopher Woitach wrote:Repetition - repeat your motif exactly, with space between repetitions, a few times.

I'm glad to see them again. Repetition helps one learn.

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 26 Apr 2012 7:52 am

You don't have to buy a whole lot of country hits transcribe note for note in PSG tab to realize you have within that tab a wealth of great pads, fills and lead ins that put you well on your way to understanding and playing good fill.
To me painting by numbers is the best way to learn and understand this part of your development.

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 26 Apr 2012 8:19 am

No! No! No! Bo that's a short cut and it will stunt your learning process.
You play the CD! You play the CD until you can figure it out.
Of course the guy painting by numbers will be playing fills with a band about two years before you can develop your ear so you can learn the same thing, but that's a small price to pay to do things correctly.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 26 Apr 2012 8:20 am

Many people also set their own goals higher than need be.
Listen to, f'rinstance, the Buddy Emmons Ray Price shuffle tab 'n' disc (I had tab 'n' vinyl) course. Then go back and LISTEN. You'll hear pretty, you'll hear tasteful. You'll hear good solid solos. But it's all based on the melody, sometimes harmonized, sometimes laced with Mozartian noodling around the melody (or I liken it to hanging Victorian bric a brac in the corners, but I have a knack for the goofball metaphors).
But if you're sitting there kicking yourself because an idea for a parthenogenesis-born solo isn't hitting you in the noggin, LISTEN to Buddy, LISTEN to Lloyd, LISTEN to Hughey. THEY weren't doing that most of the time, they just laid the melody out like dough and kneaded it a few times. If toying with the melody is good enough for them, it should work for you ("Farewell Party," anyone?).
I spent a LOT of frustrating hours trying to come up with MY OWN solo for this song or that before realizing that you don't NEED your own. If an inspiration hits you, great: run with it. If it doesn't, Perfesser Woitach has some great guidelines for HOW to toy with the melody.

Oh, and relax a bit. Do we aim to PLAY the steel, or WORK it? Overthinking results in frustration.

Frank Montmarquet · Post by **Frank Montmarquet** » 26 Apr 2012 9:09 am

Go to "Sax on the Web" and look/search. You will probably find thousands of posts about this topic. As a tenor sax player I can tell you that improvising is about all most sax players want to do. Playing in the horn line can be fun and big band stuff is fun but improvising is where it's at.

Good advise in the above posts. My take is you need to:
Invent music in your head. and make it come out your instrument. I find singing is a good way to do both. But don't neglect the other methods.

Try singing solos along to songs on the radio/cd in the car or alone. If you can't do that how do you expect to make one up in real time on the stage?

Sing, with voice or at least in your head EVERY thing you play, that includes scales exercises etc. Put the 2 together. Start simple with parts of a scale or a chord. Try nursery rhymes too.

Don't expect your solos to be unique and original every time you play one. Work on the solo, use the same one for each song and improve it each time, practice the sole alone to a CD or Band in the box.
Over time it will get better. If you listen to great players you will find many use the same ideas with the same tunes, but they will slowly change over time.

Nathan Golub · Post by **Nathan Golub** » 27 Apr 2012 8:16 am

Jim Loessberg's 25 Famous Intros, Solos and Turnarounds and 25 Ray Price Intros and Solos (both for sale here on the forum) were very helpful to me when I was first learning to play steel and develop solos. I would learn a solo, or get as close as I could, and then study the form of the solo. How it started, how the player approached the middle section, and the outro. Those elements could then be mixed and matched in other songs that I was playing. I'll play variations on those elements as well, like Christopher explains. Break everything down into the most simple pieces, then it's all simple.

And there's no shame in composing a solo beforehand. Improvising is composing in real time, and like anything else takes practice. Many times when I have to play a solo at a session I'll get a recording of the song beforehand and hum melodies that would fit, then learn & develop those melodies on the steel, like others have suggested here. That practice has led to better real-time improvised solos.

Kirk Eipper · Post by **Kirk Eipper** » 27 Apr 2012 8:47 am

Here's my advice:

See those white lines? those are frets-don't ever stop on one!

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 2 May 2012 6:59 pm

Kirk that is an emphatically useful bit of literary insight. Without doubt a brilliant observation obviously Pulitzer deserving.
You have my vote for induction into a new category of Hall of Fame Quotes.
At the very least you should be perpetually ingrained in the honored Eternal Flameisk archives of The Steel Guitar Forum.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 2 May 2012 8:14 pm

Micheal,
One thing you might try is learning some basic scales to get used to how the neck is laid out. Plain old major scales. Then try singing a short 3 note phrase. After you have that 3 note phrase in mind go ahead and play it on your steel. Once you can do that make the phrase you sing longer and figure out how to play that. After a while and allot of practice you should be able to hear a musical phrase in your mind and play it on your steel. When I have a solo coming up on the bandstand and I'm not sure what to do I'll sing along to myself for an idea. Its a way of avoiding playing the same licks over and over again and also keeps things simple and direct.

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 2 May 2012 9:31 pm

Christopher is absolutely spot on correct. Learn the scales and practice them. Create exercises using the scales up and down the neck in all of the keys. Scales are the road map for melodies and improvising. When little kids begin an instrument through a formal music program at school they have a trained music teacher with a degree in music. He/she will always asign homework that involves scales. Why would it be different for the steel? When it comes to improvisation, and music in general there will be more than just the scales. There is timing, pauses, phrasing, harmony and developing themes. If the tab has scales and excercises, then fine use the tab because then you will learn to play your instrument. But if the tab is just for a song or a riff or lick, then that's what you'll learn to play. And that's not improvising, that's memorizing licks and just regurgitating them in key. If you want to learn how to play your instrument, then learn how music works on your instrument. I know that all sounds kind of preachy, so I'll add... have fun doing it.

Kirk Eipper · Post by **Kirk Eipper** » 3 May 2012 8:05 am

Bo Legg wrote:Kirk that is an emphatically useful bit of literary insight. Without doubt a brilliant observation obviously Pulitzer deserving.
You have my vote for induction into a new category of Hall of Fame Quotes.
At the very least you should be perpetually ingrained in the honored Eternal Flameisk archives of The Steel Guitar Forum.

Thanks Bo!!!!!

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 4 May 2012 4:15 am

While this thread aims mostly at newer musicians, I thought I'd throw another angle on it, and I KNOW it's happened to all of us:
What do you play when you run out of ideas 4 bars before you run out of solo? Like having an idea, but then it dissipates.

Sorta like, assuming you buy the "music as language" metaphor, therefore a solo is sort of a soliloquy. But you can't just stop and say "I'm sorry, what was I saying?"

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 4 May 2012 7:34 am

What do you play when you run out of ideas 4 bars before you run out of solo?

Lane,
This is a big issue for me because it happens quite a bit at bar and dance gigs. I'll get called for another solo or the guitar player won't take my hand off so I end up doing an entire song form instead of just the verse like I planed for in my solo.

Some of the things I try do;
jump into another register. Like if I was playing something fast and high I play something low and slow. Like the melody Duane Eddy style.

Or I'll pick up the bar and play the next section nothing but open harmonics.

If my solo is climbing up the neck I may continue the climb for the next part if I'm feeling fearless.

Change things up and hit the overdrive or play the next part in a big chord swing style. (maybe switch necks)

Its good to have a few stock tricks to fall back on if you run out of bullets.

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 4 May 2012 1:29 pm

I've had that happen too Bob. Sometimes I'll go up an octave and repeat or make a couple of slight changes, or revert to the melody. Change the style a little maybe to a slide guitar sound works depending on the song.

Tips to learn how to improvise solos?

Tips to learn how to improvise solos?

Re: Tips to learn how to improvise solos?