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Topic: This information is not being taught thru tablature. |
Bo Legg
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Posted 23 Mar 2012 8:45 am |
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Who’s fault is that?
Would I be safe to say I could be shown all the intervals on a DVD?
Would I be safe to say I could be shown all the intervals in tablature?
Would I be safe to say I could be shown all the intervals in notation?
Would I be safe to say that all the above would tell me what an interval is and why I would need them if it were stated on the DVD or put into text along with the notation and tablature of the intervals?
Why is it that a person will except instruction in text along with the notation in almost every music book ever written and take a narrow stupid view that tab is suppose to tell you all you need to know without accompanying text and can only be used to copy someones song???? |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 23 Mar 2012 9:08 am After giving it some tho't.................
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BO: I know from your attire that you're a man that can be trusted.
I've been playing steel guitar for 68 years now......
WHAT? Is an interval.....?
Did both my Bigsby and my Emmons come equipped with them? Where are they located? Could they be right next to my built-in cabinet drop?
My Ric's are likely to olde to have them installed, correct? Oh where, oh where can they be?
I look to you for wisdom and advice. Please help me during this time of need. THANKING YOU in advance. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 23 Mar 2012 9:27 am
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interval. That's the notation on a movie script when Val Kilmer is supposed to enter a room (enter-Val, get it? OK, back to my cell).
Straight tab as found in most instruction courses don't teach anything except how someone else played the song -heck, half the time they don't even place the chords to the song in the tab - (with a few exceptions). That kind of stuff needs to be learned separately and then applied to the lesson as needed. I am a proponent of learning at least basic music theory like scales, intervals, chord construction, harmony, etc. Not necessarily learning how to read music, but that can't hurt either.
And actually, you can learn that stuff off a CD, DVD, etc. if that's what the course was designed to do.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 23 Mar 2012 9:44 am
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 Ray and Richard you kill me! |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 23 Mar 2012 9:49 am
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| Bo if we're having an interval here you want me to bring you back some popcorn and a coke? |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 23 Mar 2012 10:32 am
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Tab indicates where the notes are played on the neck. Therefore if you know your neck you know what the intervals are. If you don't know what intervals are than standard notation won't help you much either. Tab is a simple tool to help get you going as a player or keep track of particular licks. It has a valid function. If you want to dig deeper then dig deeper. Learning to play involves all sorts of things. Whatever helps is a good thing.
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Bob |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 25 Mar 2012 12:11 pm What can one say?
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BO & Stuart.....
Sure wish you guys lived closer to the Left Coast so that we could meet and compare inside knowledge with one another.
I feel left out of the loop! |
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Dick Sexton
From:
Greenville, Ohio
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Lynn Kasdorf
From:
Waterford Virginia, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2012 1:30 pm
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I don't know if I really understand the sentiment behind the original post- but I think it is something like this.
I think that tablature is mostly useful when you realize what chord you are playing against and what position. That is, I find it pretty useless to learn a lick unless I understand why it works and how to fit it into a song. I think of most licks as they relate to no pedal posn, A&F position, pedals down posn, etc.
When instruction just says "go here and play these strings" it is not nearly as useful as "play the 5 chord here at the 2 below pedal down posn with B pedal & D lever" or whatever.
_________________
"You call that thing a guitar?" |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Roual Ranes
From:
Atlanta, Texas, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2012 6:55 pm
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| An INTERVAL is the time it takes to get from a wrong fret to the right one..........and it dosen't have to be to the right. |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 26 Mar 2012 8:21 pm A short break in my musical study endeavors.............
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Hey Bo & Stuart.......
We've got another feller that wants to spice up the appearance of steel guitar pickers and the SGF.
His name is: Alexander Stepanenko from Moscow, Russia. He's definitely a real sharp dresser and gonna give the three of us a run for our money.
Well, gotta get back to Google and my research into "WHAT is an INTERVAL"? |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 1 Apr 2012 3:21 pm
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Thanks Ray we'll look the guy over.
I wish I was in Hawaii. I would love to study intervals there.
I don't know if we will be on this forum much longer. I think b0b is going to trade us to the Banjo Forum for a third round draft pick and a #20 plain string. |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 1 Apr 2012 3:50 pm
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It's about tab bashers and folks who what to put unreasonable limits on it. It's about those who fail to realize that it is the next best thing to having a real Steel guitar teacher.
It is about teachers who fail to realize the potential of tab as a teaching tool.
It's about why should I care what folks think who have gone way past their need for it. I'd rather hear from the folks who want it and like it. |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 1 Apr 2012 5:46 pm Now I'm confused..............
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Stuart..........are YOU saying that I'm past my prime and I no longer need to know the inside scoop on INTERVALS?
If they're cheap, Can I have a dozen? |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 1 Apr 2012 10:59 pm
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Ray I don't think you're past your prime but I do think you are past the need for it.
While I really don't know how you feel about tab I've never really read here on the Forum where you were bashing it.
I didn't mean in anyway to imply a person couldn't be a good teacher without using tab. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 2 Apr 2012 1:19 am
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| Stuart Legg wrote: |
Ray ... I really don't know how you feel about tab I've never really read here on the Forum where you were bashing it.
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I'll bash it. It's paint by the numbers, and offers no insight into intervals or anything else.
Moreover, this reliance on tab and refusal to learn to read music on the part of so many players is keeping the steel guitar isolated from the rest of the musical world, and reinforcing the "banjo boy from Deliverance" image that musicians on other genres have of us.
Tab is good for newbies. But I believe it should be abandoned as a learning tool as soon the student can find his or her way around a 1,4,and 5 chord progression.
If you want to understand theory, you need to be able to read music. You don't need to be able to look at a piece of sheet music and instantly play it, but you ought to be able to look at a written note and know what it is.
I really don't understand why so many steel players refuse to learn this most basic skill.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Dick Sexton
From:
Greenville, Ohio
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Posted 2 Apr 2012 5:29 am Standard Notation...
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| I think it would be very interesting to know exactly who in the steel guitar community can read standard notation well enough to apply it to the pedal steel guitar. I think if I where a beginning steel student, they would be sought out as instructors over those who did not. But, for technique, I would study the best players of the instrument. Using whatever! Personally, I've long thought, the advice of some to, get yourself in a band as soon as you can, may not be the best advice in the long run. Just a gut feeling. I did exactly that, and now find myself going back, learning music and filling in the blanks, of which there are a very many. And now I'm old, slow and have to mow the yard. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 2 Apr 2012 7:23 am
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I would be would be quite embarrassed to ask the question, "What is an interval?" in a room full of musicians. It's like asking a room full of writers "What is a word?". Intervals are the basic building blocks of melody and harmony.
In case you are actually serious, Ray, an interval is the difference in pitch between two notes. The difference in sound between two strings on your steel guitar is an interval. The difference between a C note and an A note is an interval. Without intervals, music would be just rhythm.
But I suspect that your quest is an attempt at humor, an inside joke of some sort. Surely a person cannot have 68 years of musical experience and not know what an interval is. Millions of amateur musicians know the notes of the staff, and can find them on their instrument. This isn't professional grade knowledge - it's the kind of stuff that little kids learn in school.
Ignorance of basic musical terminology is nothing to be proud of. It's not a difficult subject. I expect my kids and grandkids to learn the basics of reading music, just as I expect them to learn the alphabet and how to count to 100. If a child can learn it, why can't you?
(Someone will be compelled to quote Chet Atkins here - it happens every time. Sigh.)
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 2 Apr 2012 7:34 am
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Thanks, b0b, and well said!
It seems to be how Ray gets through the day - sniping at the later generation of players with barely-concealed scorn. I still give him the benefit of the doubt in my mind, for I'm sure he's been a competent pro in his time, but sometimes his posts try my patience.
I know, I know - why open them in the first place? Because I'm an optimist, I suppose.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 2 Apr 2012 7:38 am
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I can read music well enough to apply it to steel guitar. I do see a need for either chord block charts (which I use) or tablature when dealing with jazz chords - using the classical guitar notation of circled numbers for strings and uncircled ones for fingers, or in this case, pedals, would get very cumbersome and difficult to read. However, tablature, without accompanying standard notation, is irritating and unnecessarily uninformative.
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Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 2 Apr 2012 7:46 am
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b0b...
I just saw your tiny postscript....
A nice touch - and it surely won't be long now, will it?
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 2 Apr 2012 8:25 am
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| Quote: |
| "Years from now, after I'm gone, someone will listen to what I've done and know I was here. They may not know or care who I was, but they'll hear my guitars speaking for me." - Chet Atkins |
Likewise, years from now, when we're gone, someone might read our posts here.
Let me be the first to address them and say, "Welcome, Steeler of the Future. Enjoy the journey." |
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Geoff Cline
From:
Southwest France
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Posted 2 Apr 2012 10:34 am
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| Somehow April 1st never gets old...although it gets cloudy sometimes. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 2 Apr 2012 11:28 am
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| b0b wrote: |
Ignorance of basic musical terminology is nothing to be proud of. It's not a difficult subject. I expect my kids and grandkids to learn the basics of reading music, just as I expect them to learn the alphabet and how to count to 100. If a child can learn it, why can't you? |
It's not a matter of can't so much as won't. I don't believe there is a single person on this forum who could not learn how to read basic if he or she chose to do so. It's this idea, as epitomized by the Chet Atkins quote, that there's something wrong with being educated.
Another member of this forum who did not give me permission to identify him called it the "celebration of ignorance."
It's true that there are many musicians who can only play be reading music and can't play by ear, but that's a flaw in their education. The best musicians can read music and play by ear.
I've said this before, bit it's worth repeating; not only are being able to read music and playing by ear not incompatible, they compliment each other. Being able to read music helps me play by ear better, and being ably to play by ear makes me a better reader.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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